HR Generalist with 20 Years of Experience, Wildly Knowledgeable

With 20 years in HR in a number of areas Jennifer Kramer is a true HR generalist, She is now the Executive Vice President for Benefits at Presidio. She and I had a great conversation about hiring, retention, and culture shifts. Not only does Jennifer offer a wealth of knowledge, but she also is highly intelligent and I truly enjoyed an amazing conversation with her.

 

Contact Jennifer

E-mail - HR@Presidiogrp.com

Phone number - 630-524-6153

 

Leighann Lovely  00:20

HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann lovely. Let's get this conversation started. 

 

Jennifer Kramer is the Executive Vice President of employee benefits in Presidio HR. She has over 20 years of experience in operations supporting multi state for profit and nonprofit organizations. She has expertise in project management, training and development, performance management, employee and client relations, policy and procedures and conflict resolutions. consistently recognized as an innovative, results orientated and effective leader, Jennifer builds team's support by encouraging others to perform and achieve strategic business goals. Jen is no stranger to setting goals and performing her best with three marathons and 13, half marathons, finisher medals hanging around her neck. She's living her dream one mile at a time.

 

Jennifer, thank you so much for joining me today.

 

Jennifer Kramer  02:09

Well, thank you for having me. It's such a pleasure to be invited onto your show.

 

Leighann Lovely  02:14

Why don't you start off by telling telling us a little bit about yourself?

 

Jennifer Kramer  02:19

Sure, um, well, I've been in human resources. Progressive through my career for about 20 years first, as an internal, each our professional and then as I term it, an external HR professional, meaning that I provide HR services to my clients rather than one particular organization. So as an HR consultant, in a number of different areas, the full breadth of an employee lifecycle, if you want to think of it in that respect. So I would call myself a true HR generalist. So not necessarily specializing in one area or another.

 

Leighann Lovely  03:07

Okay, awesome. So, like we kind of mentioned in your bio, you just mentioned, you've been in the industry one way or another for over 20 years. And I'm assuming that in that, just like me, you've probably seen anything and everything that that goes on out there. Yes, yes. Fun times. Right.

 

Jennifer Kramer  03:30

The Good, the Bad, the Ugly, and the funny.

 

Leighann Lovely  03:33

Yes, yes. What, as you say, funny. I believe I interviewed somebody once over the phone. Who was in the bathtub once that was one of them. Ones? Yes. Think when? Oh, yeah. Somebody actually peed while we were on the doing an interview.

 

Jennifer Kramer  03:51

Oh just this past week. I had someone answered the phone. They were in the shower. And it was on the phone. It was not a video call. Let me be clear there especially in today's age, right, but, but nonetheless, they felt the need to answer our scheduled phone interview while they were in the shower, and then proceeded to continue on that call, even though I suggested maybe we reschedule. So yeah, it's amazing what people do.

 

Leighann Lovely  04:23

Right. I didn't want to miss the call. Let's just Yes, but I needed to still shower. Right. I know. I know. We professionals. We get the brunt of the crazies out there, don't we? Or I shouldn't. I shouldn't No, no, no, I know. Okay, well anyways. So, you and I have obviously spoke prior to this and, you know, this being about employee retention about hiring. Let's talk a little bit about some of the things that you or do to help your, you know, clients? With those types of things? How do you? How do you start working with your clients? To assist with those types of things?

 

Jennifer Kramer  05:14

In terms of hiring and retention? Yeah. Really, we take it right back to the very beginning and understanding, you know, what are what's your culture? Right? What are your? What are your needs in this position? We don't want to, we don't want to necessarily rinse and repeat in saying that, you know, you, for example, maybe someone resigned, and you're looking to replace that position? Do you? Do we need to find this exact replacement? Or have things changed over time? So let's look at, you know, what are your needs today versus where they were perhaps three years ago or five years ago when you initially hired for that role? And where are you looking to go in the future so that we're not just solving for today, but we're solving for tomorrow as well as best as we can, we don't have that crystal ball. And then when we are looking to bring somebody on what's going to be attractive to them. So we look at the whole picture, and everyone focuses in on compensation. Well, we certainly want to be competitive in the marketplace. So we talked about, you know, where the compensation philosophy, where do you want to be? Do you want to be Mitt like right in the middle in terms of your competition? Do you want to lead the market, like the market? The compensation is just one piece of it. There's, there's the full package when we talk about benefits. There's the employee benefit package in terms of medical, dental vision. But then also, what are you providing in terms of time off? Paid Time Off? Sick leave? Holidays? That's a key component these days? Do you have a flexible work environment? What's your true what are you portraying as a community as a culture? Because that's key to employees? Are you 100%? Remote? Do you offer a hybrid work environment? These are things that people are looking for. In when I talk about culture, oftentimes it's very subjective, right? We can't, we can't say, Okay, your medical plan is this and this, you have so many days of PTO, right. But culture, culture is hard to pinpoint. But it's, in my mind, it's about listening to your employees, empowering your employees. Talking to them understanding where they want to go with their careers, giving them the tools to get there, giving them maybe an assignment or a project or whatever it is, that pertains to their work, that will stretch their minds, give them those opportunities for growth, those learning opportunities, right? Being present with them, to guide them and support them, but not necessarily doing the job for them. So all of that plays into to culture. And if you can do that, in addition to the compensation, the PTO, the holidays, the work, location, and everything else that they're looking for. Then in my mind, that's what makes everything kind of stick. That's the stickiness factor at the retention in that employee.

 

Leighann Lovely  09:28

And I love that, you know, when we when we first spoke, you use that term, you have to make actuations, you know, sticky. And so that leads me into, you know, a great next question. Do you think that employees are truly leaving positions for more money these days?

 

Jennifer Kramer  09:53

Yes and no. For some people, money is very important to them, but ultimately the majority If people are not leaving for money, it all has to do with overall culture and feeling valued in that rule. So if you can convey to your employees in whatever manner makes no sense in, in your company in your industry in that role, that they're valued, that they're listened to that what they have to say, in the work that they produce, whether it's making widgets, or, you know, performing that, you know, intensive, you know, surgery, or, you know, what, whatever spectrum that's on, that the work that they're producing is valuable to you, their manager, the broader organization, and to, you know, they're bringing value and they're, they're intrinsically receiving that, overall, that's what's gonna lead them to stay with you. 25 cents down the road is not going to make or break it, they may go initially, but they're gonna if they don't feel valued for 25 cents more down the road, they're gonna come back to you. And we do see that boomerang.

 

Leighann Lovely  11:21

Right. So how do we I mean, other than, obviously, the obvious answer, fix your culture, which is I know, not an obvious

 

Jennifer Kramer  11:30

I wish I had that Pixy dust, right,

 

Leighann Lovely  11:32

Right. You know, sprinkle it over this company, sprinkle it over that company, and all of a sudden, it's magically fixed. But we all know that it's taken years years for culture to plummet. Because, right, I've got to assume that at one time, all of these businesses that and don't get me wrong, I am sure that every business that started at one time had the greatest intent of having this glorious place that people wanted to come and work out. Somewhere along the line. culture became its own animal, because with lack of direction, and Trish intention, and you have to have somebody who's actually intentionally creating culture in order to maintain that, right. So at one point, somebody who was creating and cultivating and continuing to manage that exited that company. And nobody stepped in and said, Okay, this is my intention, I'm going to continue to cultivate this ever really stepped back in and continue to cultivate that and make it beautiful. And so culture, ultimately, you know, the lack of creating and cultivating that doesn't mean that another culture doesn't take over. Correct, it becomes its own animal. Yeah. So now we have businesses, we have companies that whether it's flying under the radar, and nobody's ever said, Oh, it's a horrible place to work. Or it's very blatant, and you see these horrible reviews and nobody's gonna care. A culture exists.

 

Jennifer Kramer  13:24

I mean, cultures exist, subcultures exist,

 

Leighann Lovely  13:28

right. So now, we're in a, in a state of, how do we unravel the negativity? And then start to rebuild positivity in these in these places, you know, and when it's, you know, if it's if it's culture of 15, it may be a little bit easier, but when, you know, 150. That's going to take time. Now, if we're talking about 3000. Right. And for those of you who, you know, obviously can't see us, Jennifer right now is making a face of, yeah, that's that's going to be extremely difficult. So, we're, we're not impossible, right? Nothing is impossible. But where do we even begin? Because, right, I mean, the first thing I do or have done when I was looking for a job was what is the culture of this company? Are they a great company to work for? Or are they a horrible company to work for? And I, let me tell you, that's going to play a huge role on whether or not I want to go work for them. Even if they're willing to pay me top dollar. Am I going to be miserable every time I come home? And is that dollar worth it? Probably not.

 

Jennifer Kramer  15:05

And what's important to you may not be important to the next person. So what you value is different from what someone else values. But yes, where do you start? Well, number one is being aware and wanting to, to make a change. And that change always starts from the top. So someone in that top or top levels of the company needs to initiate that change, and you need to be open to it. And change is never easy. And to your point, you know, change within a 15 person, company Versa, 3000 or more, right, is going to take much longer. But regardless, right, you have to have the buy in, and you're never going to have 100% buy in, ever. But starting at the top understanding, you know, what is your mission? What is your vision? What are your values? And how do you organization, right, want to manifest those values going forward? What does that look like to you in your day to day work, right, and then determine who's in this with you, and who's going to choose not to stay on this route, right. And they may initially say, I'm in this, right I, I see your vision, I see your mission. I understand the values, and I'm on this route. And as you start to move that ships lowly and it becomes more and more uncomfortable. You may see those employees opt out. And that's O, K. Because although that may be a star player for you, and it may hurt to have that employee, leave your team. And it may leave a huge void. Everyone is replaceable. And this is your company, your vision, your mission, your values, and everyone needs to be moving in the same line. Right? If this is truly what you as leaders believe in in terms of where you want your culture to be, then some hard decisions are going to be need to be made along the way. And certainly not overnight. So again, if I could go back to having that magic wand of pixie dust, I would love to do this for some of the companies that I helped to support. But it is a journey, and you need to be going into that eyes wide open.

 

Leighann Lovely  18:00

Interesting. So we need buy in obviously from the top up. And so do you consult with them on? Where to start?

 

Jennifer Kramer  18:12

We do. Yeah. So certainly where to start, what the process may look like. And then we walk alongside all through that process. So every company, it's going to look different in terms of you know, Where where are they today? And where do they want to go? And what does that look like? So?

 

Leighann Lovely  18:35

So let's say it's a 50 person company. Okay. What do you typically tell them? That timeframe is going to look like?

 

Jennifer Kramer  18:48

Well, again, it depends on where they are today, right? But minimum, minimum a year, if not longer, right? Again, it doesn't happen overnight. We may make some changes, we may make some significant impact over a year. But the bottom line is it never stops. We don't hit a goal line and say we've achieved this, it is continuous improvement. And how do you leave your you can't take your eye off the ball. So you also made a point earlier about you know, someone who had their their eye on that, that culture, right, they may have left the organization. And that's where things started to unravel. Maybe they did leave the organization or maybe they just became so hauled in a different direction that they asked where they took their eye off of things. You need to have someone or some people continuously keeping their eye on this, the vision, the mission, the culture and making sure it's going in the direction, it can evolve, right? But it needs to continue to go in the direction you would like it to.

 

Leighann Lovely  20:05

And how do you track this? You know, I have all these ideas like, oh, this constant employee surveys, do we do concepts? I mean, what are we what? What are the matrix on this? Because now we're talking, you know, and when I hear culture, I think it's like, it's not a tangible thing. It's not something held on your hands. So it's like, how do I track this? Especially when you're speaking to some people who? And I say this? Let me as sometimes I was pausing and go, I don't know, am I gonna say this? Right? Some people out there don't mind walking into a volatile environment and working in that. And not necessarily because there's the one who's who creates it. But don't get me wrong. There are some people who thrive on watching others gossip and be absolutely. So if you're coming into a culture that is already completely, possibly up in arms and isn't nice, toxic, toxic, you, you now are asking these employees whom you are trying to create a positive culture, you are not going to be asking them, how do you feel the culture has gotten? And they those employees may think that while it's gotten really horrible hear, because now you're turning what they think is their haven of gossip and disarray into positivity and sunshine and rainbows. So how do we truly track this?

 

Jennifer Kramer  21:49

Well, first, let's just set the expectation that nowhere sunshine and rainbows, right?

 

Leighann Lovely  21:57

Sorry, yes, you're right. But

 

Jennifer Kramer  21:58

Yes, but we can have, we can have a good environment where you feel you feel good about, you know, working in that that environment, I don't want to say like walking into right, because we don't all walk into a brick and mortar but you you feel comfortable walking into that environment. You feel good about the work you're producing and what have you, but But to your point, how do we measure this? Right? Yes, there are several tools, certainly employee surveys, focus groups, right? Walking around. Again, I'm picturing everyone in brick and mortar, but truly just having those conversations with your team. Whether the ads, regular touch base meetings, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, you know, random conversations, you can learn a lot by just having a regular basic conversation with your team, either one to one in a team format, at the watercooler whatever that looks like, it's amazing what people will share with you. But you have to be present

 

Leighann Lovely  23:14

Right now and sit and I understand when you say it's amazing what people will share with you because for some reason, over the years, as I have no longer been in corporate HR, I have been on the sales side the business development side in a in a at a staffing at very staffing companies over the last years. It is amazing. What when when employees don't look at you as the authority, correct, what they will divulge to you. And when they don't look at you as being anybody who, when they don't look at you as a threat of this person can't harm me, this person can't fire me this person can't. Yet they also look at you as a superior as somebody who they can possibly could potentially help me. It is absolutely amazing what somebody will come in and confide in you in sometimes looking for just a confidant and sometimes looking for an underlying cry for help of something's not right here. And I have been in that position a couple of times throughout my career of employees coming in, sitting down in my office and I'm like, what, what, what can I do for you and then all of a sudden they burst out in tears and I'm going whoa, what's happening here? And, and that sometimes it was because I was the only other female in the office that Oh, isn't that true? Mm hmm. And it was like, Oh, okay. Okay. All right. And then it was do you? Are you just venting? Or do you want me to take action? Excellent question. Yes. And quite often it was. I just wanted to vent. Yeah. Which eventually came into. Okay, if you continue to come into my office, I cannot stay silent on this. Very good. Yes. Yeah. Like, I mean, this has gotten to a point of you are clearly very dissatisfied. You are clearly. I mean, you're either going to quit, or you're going to get fired. Because now. And when people don't look at you as a threat of like, your HR, your or it is amazing that they're more apt to tell you when I'm confused by is why? Why have we created such? And I know the answer to it, it's a rhetorical question. But why have we created why have we stopped employees? Even know, we tell them until we're blue in the face, this is a safe place, there will be no retribution for you. You know, coming forward, there will be why time and time again, will employees not come forward and say, Hey, this is, you know, my manager is yelling at me, despite the fact that I'm doing a good job or this is happening or whatever it might be, is transpiring.

 

Jennifer Kramer  26:55

So, although we say it, right, oftentimes, the trust isn't there. So somewhere along the way, that trust has been broken. At some, it may not have been between that particular manager and that employee. But somewhere, they have seen that, that trust between an employee and manager broken. And so they can't trust in the fact that what is been stated in that handbook stated in that policy verbally explained to them over and over. And regardless of what the law says, They don't trust in that, and they feel that it's going to come back to them in some negative aspect. And it's just better not to say anything at all. Some also feel that it's not worth their time and energy, because it's not going to go anywhere. That perhaps, you know, this person might be this person who might be bullying them or harassing them, or whatever the situation is, that they are seen as a favorite, or a protected person within the organization, and we're garlis of what happens, they're not going to get in trouble, and no action is going to be taken. So why is it that me employee who feels attacked? Why should I put myself out there, when nothing is going to happen? So that's oftentimes the mentality, especially if this person, this employee may have a disciplinary record, right? And who's going to believe them? Their mentality is who's going to believe me? If I've been written up in the past, right, against this person who has a stellar record, even though what they're doing is wrong. So you have to put yourselves in their shoes and understand, you know, where they may be coming from. Sometimes, too, it's very cultural, you know, between, you know, how they've, how they've grown up in their, their, their culture, their race, their ethnicity. Yeah, in terms of that type of culture versus culture we were just speaking of, and it's just not how they were. What they do in their culture, and so they are not comfortable in in coming forward in that respect.

 

Leighann Lovely  29:59

That's Yeah. And that's so unfortunate. And do you deal in it? Do you deal with situations like that? Or are you more on the other? I'm all the time. Oh,

 

Jennifer Kramer  30:11

we yeah, we work on? Yeah. So we'll work alongside both them, you know, managers, supervisors, owners, as, as well as employees, line employees and at all levels of the organization,

 

Leighann Lovely  30:25

right. And then it's so unfortunate that this, in today's society, you would think that we had gotten, we've gotten to a point where people, you know, through the, the me to era through all of this through that if somebody is being bullied or somebody is being an any number of things, right, that you would think people would feel comfortable to, and if not their own manager, if not, right, you know, and again, I guess I suppose this is why I have been in situations. And again, don't get me wrong. I haven't been in situations where it was, you know, imminent, imminent, where I was like, Oh, my gosh, I have to, but it, it is, it's amazing that in today's society, we are still experiencing until missions like this. Yeah. Right. So I kind of got off on a tangent here as we left, okay, because we, it just you triggered something in my brain. So getting back to the employee, you know, employee retention and training. And do you work with companies on creating training plans on how to onboard new employees?

 

Jennifer Kramer  31:40

Yes, on a regular basis? We certainly do so. So training plans, yes. And that can look very different, again, for the organization. So, you know, are we training managers? Are we training on compliance? Sexual harassment prevention? The are we training on, you know, a handbook, right? Are we training on, you know, whatever. So family medical leave, I'm just trying to come up with a number of different trainings that we've done, we will also train like newer human resource professionals in their roles. In terms of onboarding, yes, we will create new hire, onboarding, trainings, to effectively bring in a new employee in terms of not only the regular compliance New Hire paperwork package, but also what trainings do they need to be effective in their roles? Now, of course, if it's company specific rule specific, what have you, we're going to work alongside of that client, manager supervisor who has the knowledge in those specifics to develop that program, but we will work with them to do that.

 

Leighann Lovely  33:10

Interesting. Do you find a lot of companies are lacking in the onboarding process.

 

Jennifer Kramer  33:20

More and more are moving towards more of an electronic onboarding process and with these tools in terms of, you know, adding that into their HR is system whether that be ADP, paycor, Paylocity, pay com, fill in the blank, right? So that has helped tremendously. But there are still quite a few organizations in which we help support that are more on a paper based onboarding. And that may be because of the nature of the workforce that they have are just because they haven't invested in that onboarding program. But the when I talk about that, that really has to do more with the, you know, do you have, you know, an application? Do you have your, your tax forms? Do you have your I nine. In those type of documents, it does not necessarily then expand into, you know, what does that first week look like for that employee? What does it look like beyond that first week, because having a very solid onboarding, the at all, as I say, goes into that stickiness factor. If that employee doesn't have a nice warm welcome, onboarding, they're going to continue to look for the next opportunity. They're not going to feel like they're valued that they belong there, that they're needed, right?

 

Leighann Lovely  34:55

So you just hit a like, button here for me. So forgive me while I interrupt you for a sec, please. I had a company once say to me, we don't. After they go through the initial paperwork, we don't circle back to them until they've made it their first week. And I say to him, Well, why? Because we want to make sure that they're going to make it their first week until we invest any more time in them. And I went,

 

Jennifer Kramer  35:22

wait, what? Oh, that's too late. I,

 

Leighann Lovely  35:27

why would you expect them to stay that first week if you're not investing any time in them? And their response was, we didn't, we haven't noticed that it has helped any better because we're just we have people coming and going so quickly. What is your philosophy on that?

 

Jennifer Kramer  35:49

If you don't invest in them from eighth, forget the first. So enter first week even, it has to start before their first day, it has to start from the the initial reach out to them from every touch point along the way. So if you reach out to that candidate, for example, to say, you know, for a phone interview, from that phone interview, to, in person interview, to extending that job offer that time period between that job offer, like let's just say for example, it's two weeks standard two weeks, you better be touching base with that person, whether it's an email of phone, call a text, what have you, throughout those two weeks, to make sure that they know that you haven't forgotten about them in those two weeks. Just a quick little note, hope your day is going well. We can't wait for you to start we're preparing your orientation. Just want to make sure you know, you have everything you need for day one quick little touch bases. You're going to lose them before they even come in that door.

 

Leighann Lovely  37:12

Very interesting. Yeah. And and I agree, I absolutely agree. But like you mentioned, even some employees who come in that door. Continue to look around, perhaps Absolutely. So in today's society, in today's world with more jobs than people. And this isn't stopping, by the way, because we have more jobs than people available to work and and that's that's just that's, that is the way it is now it is. There's just no more people. How do we combat that? I can I don't, I don't expect you to often answer if you had an answer to that you'd be a millionaire.

 

Jennifer Kramer  38:12

Right? Let me grab my my crystal ball and my pixie dust and we'll just resolve this right now. But but it is it is being diligent about you know, finding that talent, making them feel valued and and then having a good environment while you have that employee. Now, on the flip side, just because you have a warm body in that spot does not make that person valuable to you. So think about if you have a person working for you, and they're just underperforming not performing, if they're toxic, if they're are contributing to a poor environment, if they're bringing down your culture and not living up to the culture you want. Is it better to let that person go and have a vacancy or to continue to have that person in that role and spread that you know, toxic environment and you as the manager owner when you know decision maker you need to decide what's better. And knowing that there may not be an easy backfill for that person, you might be without someone for a while.

 

Leighann Lovely  39:40

Right. And I think that is why so many companies have ended up where they are. Right because and unfortunately it is the small to midsize company it is who can't pay the top dollar like the monster companies out there. They're the ones We're struggling to get individuals who are willing to take the lower paying position. And right now you know, I have obviously coming from the staffing industry coming from an industry where you talk to all of these individuals who are, who will tell you upfront, it's, it's not about the money, it's I want to find a better environment. But then when it comes to negotiation, it comes down to well, this other company is offering me $5,000 more a year. You know, I think I might take that and you look at him, and you go, Well, wait a second. But you know, that company, you know, has a really bad reputation for their culture. Yeah. But okay, wait, let's go back to what you originally told me in the initial conversation we ever had. Because when it comes down to the core Money talks, and that person will end up taking that job. And the last their six months, and then they call you back and they say, back on the market, why are you back in the market? Oh, that was a horrible company to work for. And then when you ask them, Well, what would you like, what is the minimum that you need to make, they'll say, the dollar amount that they were making at that other company, and then you go, Wait a second. Just because you made $5,000, more a year for six months, does not mean that that is what you were valued at, in this market. They paid a premium for you to steal you away from another offer. And then that person doesn't understand why they can't get a job. And then they get disgruntled and they get upset with you. And then they don't want to work with you because you're a horrible recruiter who How dare you you try to lowball them. And then your hand I again, I'm I'm now getting into this, you know, cycle of where we are in this world. But out of nowhere, some company will go, Yep, no knob, I'll pay that for them. And yet, it's another company that has a horrible culture. That's willing to snap them up. And then they go, and they work there for six months. And eventually, when they do come back to you, and you find them a really awesome company that really wants to interview them, the company will come back and go, Why is this person a job jumper? Oh, I hear the story. regularly, and you go. What I want to say is because they didn't take my advice, when they had a really awesome job offer a year and a half ago. And so they've been going through the cycle of chasing the money. And now they finally gotten smart about it. And realized, Oh, I could have had a very sweet job at a very well paying job at a really good company. But they'll never admit that. And then who gets the bad rap? The recruiter,

 

Jennifer Kramer  43:14

The recruiter. Yes, you're not doing your job.

 

Leighann Lovely  43:20

You're not doing your job. You're not finding me producing you're not you're not finding me a company. That's a good company. All these companies right, you know are horrible. And Bob. Sorry, I digress. I digress. Can you tell that I'm little COVID brain today? Okay, anyways, getting back at it. Sure. We are starting to we're coming to time. So I want to I want to ask you the question of the season. Okay. You have been in your industry working in HR for nearly 20 years. So if you could change a practice about your job or something about your job or the practice that people do in your role? What would you change?

 

Jennifer Kramer  44:07

I like the question of the season. Oftentimes in human resources, right, we need to we absolutely not oftentimes we do need to abide by compliance. There are many HR professionals who look at the practice in terms of black and white, right? Well, we deal with people if people are not black and white. We are individuals with very unique needs and unique situations. So I feel we need to be somewhat flexible within the guardrails of the laws and compliance it's given to us. So sometimes we need to play in that gray area, given the situation that we're handed, and treat it with some compassion, we're not dealing with robots, we're dealing with people. And sometimes you just need to step into their shoes for a moment. Now, I see that, but I also am very, very much aware that with compliance, we need to apply things. equitably, uniformly. But these are individuals with unique beads. So take that into consideration. It's not black and white.

 

Leighann Lovely  45:42

I love that. I love it. And I agree with it. And you know, and I go back to, you know, the days of creating jobs that were cookie cutter, and everybody has to do the same and the plug and play the idea that we could just take somebody with this skill set and plug them in this job, and they were gonna be able to do it. Those days are gone. They are Yeah. And we just we need to get on on. We need to get on board with that and realize that we have to hire people with common sense.

 

Jennifer Kramer  46:21

Very hard to teach common sense, right.

 

Leighann Lovely  46:25

And unfortunately, colleges are not, are not allowing people to raise up with common sense. They're saying, hey, oh, study this, come back, not study, go memorize this, come back and pass this test. That needs to change. We need to allow people to, you know, to troubleshoot on their own sometimes even flounder.

 

Jennifer Kramer  46:53

Yes, it's okay to fail as long as you learn from it. Yes.

 

Leighann Lovely  46:58

And that's and that's what we need to to start teaching our children again. Stop allowing them to win the board game every time. They will cry about it. They will throw fits, because I have a five year old who cries about it and throws fits. But she's old enough to understand that she can't win every time. Plain and simple. I stopped rigging the game for her to win every time because she's never going to learn anything if she wins the game. Every now I will tell you that every time we play Crazy Eights for some reason she wins every frickin time. It's her skill. I know it's mad skill. But we've we don't you never learn anything. Anything I think you know all of those shows. Although those cop shows whenever it's the whenever it's the dad, the rich dad bailing out the rich kid every single time. They're spoiled brats, right? Well, I'm gonna get out of this because Daddy's gonna come to my rescue until one day Daddy can't come to the rescue, or mommy, or stepdad or your stepdad or grandpa, whatever. Right? Right. We have to stop bailing our kids out so that our kids can grow up with brains that are actually functioning fully and troubleshooting issues and problems. That's what's going to create a strong word. I'm sorry, I digress again.

 

Jennifer Kramer  48:25

That's okay.

 

Leighann Lovely  48:27

See, I mean, and that's that that is what creates a strong human beings the ability to fail and still succeed through failure.

 

Jennifer Kramer  48:41

Yeah, absolutely. Again, learning, learning and growing from those mistakes. If you don't fail, you can't learn,

 

Leighann Lovely  48:47

right? I have fallen more and more times than I possibly that I will ever admit. How about that?

 

Jennifer Kramer  48:55

I tell my daughter, I make mistakes every day. Every single day. Some of them are small, some of them are big.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:03

Just don't gotta keep going. Just don't make mistakes on your taxes. Okay. Um, if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?

 

Jennifer Kramer  49:13

Sure. Um, a couple of different ways. One, you can reach me at H R @ Presidio group. That's g rp.com. You can also call me but I'm on the phone all day. So that one is a little bit more challenging, but certainly feel free to call me at 630-524-6153.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:48

Excellent. That'll be in the show notes. Jennifer, I really appreciate you coming on today and talking with me. It's been a great conversation.

 

Jennifer Kramer  49:55

Well, thank you. I appreciate it.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:56

You have an awesome day.

 

Jennifer Kramer  49:58

Thanks, you too.

 

Leighann Lovely  49:59

Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible so don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us, like us or share us have a wonderful day.

 

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SUMMARY KEYWORDS

employees, culture, work, company, people, person, valued, terms, creating, compliance, job, training, organization, years, hr, day, continue, week, manager, presidio