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Wednesday Dec 13, 2023
Wednesday Dec 13, 2023
Let’s Talk HR has been an amazing journey. A special thanks to all my audience for joining me on this journey and supporting me. We are ending this, the same way we started, with a good friend and fellow podcaster Robb Conlon, Owner/Founder of Westport Studio. Join us for an great conversation about Robb’s journey into entrepreneurship and close the book on Lets Talk HR.
But don’t be to disappointed, because this girl is not going anywhere, coming January 2024 we are launching Love Your Sales – The podcast that will be breaking down all the sales tips, tricks and objections that stand in your way to the golden, YES.
Contact Robb –
Website - https://www.westportstudiosllc.com/
E-mail - westportstudiosllc@gmail.com
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann. Lovely. Let's get this conversation started. Rob. Thank you for joining me today. This is absolutely awesome.
Robb Conlon 01:15
It is a bit of a full circle moment here, which is fun, and I always love those.
Leighann Lovely 01:19
Yes. So for my audience, I have Robb Conlon joining me today. It is bittersweet as I am announcing that this is going to be the final episode of Let's Talk HR humanizing the conversation. And for those of you who have been on this journey with me, two years ago, I launched bloodstock HR, and Rob Conlon, who has over the years now, I think about four years, three, three and a half, four, somewhere in there. He actually helped me launch this podcast by joining me on my first ever episode, to interview me on why I wanted to launch this podcast. He has been a great friend, he has been somebody had gone to for advice on how to even do a podcast. And it's just been such an amazing journey to, I guess, get advice from you and watch you on your entrepreneur journey. And so I'm so thrilled that you've agreed to join me today and to talk to me about this
Robb Conlon 02:30
completely my friend. And it's one of those things where I can't believe it's been two years since we kick this thing off. And now we're, we're closing it up. It's like, wow, that kind of was a snap. You know, I
Leighann Lovely 02:43
know, when I look back at you know, originally launching this, and I get I'm getting goosebumps, because of you know the story behind why I originally wanted to launch let's take, or let's talk HR. And now the reason that I'm decided to sunset it, which makes sense for my own personal journey. It truly is bittersweet, but it has served its purpose. But you yourself, have also since we met had a podcast that you invited me to come on. And sunsetted that podcast, started a new podcast, started a business. So let's talk about it.
Robb Conlon 03:34
Sure. Well, you mentioned that, you know, sunsetting a podcast No, originally you and I met when I had you as a guest on recruiting hell, which was my podcast that I made during the pandemic, to help the world get back to work. And I thought, okay, I can go be a content creator and things like that. Welcome. Everybody did that. Let's get one of the unintended consequences of starting that show was we actually helped a lot of folks get some jobs, we found over 1 million, sorry, one and a half million dollars in Job salaries and benefits for people. Plus it got me plugged into an incredible network on LinkedIn. So I'm so happy that I I started that but much like every customer journey, every business journey, there's a beginning and there's an end and sunsetting this show for you. I know exactly what you're going through because sunsetting recruiting Hell was a very emotional moment because it was one of those things that when I had very little going for me in my life, that was it was one of those things and I know that you have a ton going for you right now with your business journey, but it taking away something that's been kind of one of the main engines, if you will, for a while. That can kind of hurt so you know, for sunsetting recruiting Hell was what's necessary because I had lost passion for it. And I don't think for you it's changed a passion thing. It's just the the mission has changed, if you will, as to what you're doing so she said her purpose, and we would give her that Viking funeral, you know, on a burning boat. Right? But, but that's kind of where I went with my show. And, you know, it was, it was kind of a sad thing. I actually, not too long ago remove the bumper sticker for my car, because I replaced it with my new company logo. And it's like, oh, okay, like, it's, it's kind of this, like, not quite paving over, but like, upgrading almost in this case. And I think that's a great way to look at it for you as well. Yeah,
Leighann Lovely 05:33
yeah, you're right. And I haven't looked at it. Like that. It's, but as many entrepreneurs will say, there are seasons, you know, seasons to business, there are seasons to life, and we have to, you know, recognize it. First off, if we don't recognize it, we get stuck, right, we get stuck, and we can't move on from that. So it's it is time. And, you know, I've had a lot of people, you know, come up to me, as I've launched my business, I've talked about this, you know, love your sales, people are like, Wait, I thought you were an HR lady. And I'm like, Well, I was, I am at, you know, my core. HR is part of every business. But for the last decade, I have been on the sales, side consulting, you know, HR, you know, for HR, I suppose, it'd be the right thing. So, you know, now it's time for me to, to move forward and no longer, you know, I guess, branded myself as the the HR expert. So
Robb Conlon 06:41
you can always keep that going a little bit. A lot of times I tell a lot of folks out there that I am. I'm not a founder and entrepreneur, I'm a salesperson in disguise. But that's one of the you know, we share that skill in this case. And I think for, you know, a founder led company, which is what yours is like, just like mine is, as a founder led company, you have a very good skill set that you can, and I use the word masquerade in a way of like playing in a different role, not you know, being shady or anything like that, you know, you can put on that different face and say, Hey, today, I am your HR person. But I'm actually, you know, I'm a salesperson at heart. But today, I'm HR today, I am your marketing person today, I am your IT department, things like that. And I've had to wear a couple of those hats lately, that's for sure. So
Leighann Lovely 07:33
let's talk about that. So let's you you, you know, you had an amazing podcast. And now you have a new amazing podcast. But let's let's talk about you know, you, you started that journey, because you were you're experiencing something, you know, most people who start a podcast, whether unless it's really a b2b, you're in this company, you're doing it for that company, they start but, you know, unless it's that they start a personal podcast, it's usually driven by something you're experiencing something that's bothering you, or a personal message you want to get out. You were experiencing something when you started recruiting? What? What was going on that, that you went, I got to start this podcast,
Robb Conlon 08:23
you know, it was, it was one of those things where if I look back at it now, I was not, I was not happy with who I was, I was not happy with where I was in life, I was not happy with how the world worked in this case, and I needed to teach myself the new way of things working, if you will, you know, my, my folks used to always tell me when I was, you know, younger and looking for jobs and things like that, play the game, play the game. It's like, well, the game is kind of broken mom and dad, like, I don't want to get to generationally, you know, like snarky here, but like, okay, Boomer, you know, like that kind of thing. But like, but applying for a job or grabbing a job was very different than in years past 20 3040 years ago, you would walk into a department store and say, Hey, I'd like an application and things like that. Well, when I started recruiting, how Yes, online applications existed, you really didn't go into places to get things like that. But it was such a frustration to do them. Things like Taleo and workday and like I still get a little fired up when I talk about these these application codes because I hate them. I literally hate them so much. Like it like the user experience design is terrible. The the fact that I've entered things twice, come on guys, like it's at the time it was your 2019 and things like that. It's like this shouldn't be this way. So the essence of recruiting how it was distilled out of a joke I made to my My wife one night after being incredibly frustrated one day of job hunting, and it was, it was a very emotional moment for me because it was kind of like, I don't want to say, you know, losing it or anything like that, but just kind of like that, like, ah, like, I'm really trying to hold it together here, and it's just not working. And so I made I made the joke to her that it's like being trapped in hell. And why wouldn't we be great. It's only been a podcast about what you call it recruiting how blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I kind of kind of waltzed off back to up here and just sat down on my computer. And I said, I got to actually make that. So I got this. I don't know if I still have it. I don't think I do. But I had this microphone that was just awful. At the time, it was it was some corded thing. It was like a lapel mic. That wasn't a lapel mic. It was ported. It said Blake, like Epson on it or something like that. And I just kind of held it in a tucked into it with a free recording software for an hour. And it was this rant. It was this rant of like, This is so stupid. This is so unfair, I actually found that that file, like two or like a year or two ago, it's still on my old computer. And it's like kind of unhinged, honestly, like you can feel the pain, you can feel the frustration and things like that. And I look because I listened to it as though we are really not in a good place when we were. So that was that was the impetus for the show. And it started. You know, I look back at my show. And I oftentimes we go back and and listen to episode one. And I listen to episode 40. And I listen to episode I think it's 68, which is the last one. And between those three, you can actually hear the entire evolution of the show, the way that I grew as a content creator the way as I grew as somebody who was you know, kind of taking this a little more seriously as like a business thing. And the the way it just started was literally sitting down and that rant. It got rerecorded, but it was split into three episodes, which is kind of great so often take to was much less emotional, if you will, and much more informative. Actually, episodes one and two were some of my most listened to episodes, because they were they may not have had the quality that people expect from a podcast nowadays. But they had great information for people so
Leighann Lovely 12:27
well. And they were probably very, they were probably very emotional and raw. Because you were you were feeling it. You were authentic.
Robb Conlon 12:40
Right. Yeah, I think a lot of people who say I'm this guy, I am this guy, this guy is me. So
Leighann Lovely 12:49
great, because we've anybody who's ever sat down and tried to apply for a job. And trust me, I've I, and it's been a really long time since I've really sat down and I found a job through applying and doing the application process. Because again, I'm an HR sales lady. I stopped doing that. And I started going directly to the hiring manager through connections in my network. The last job I think that I had, they came directly to me and recruited me directly in and I think that I mean, so it's been a really long time since I've been in that game. But I know what people go through. And it's so frustrating. Spreadsheets, people are like, well, let me see my check my spreadsheet to see where I am. And it's like, oh my god, if that it's a full time job. So yeah. So now let's talk about the next job you had after that. Because if I remember correctly, the reason that you ended up getting this opportunity was tied very closely to the work that you put in to the podcast that you created. Yeah,
Robb Conlon 14:08
you're absolutely right. Because as you know, I was putting that out on LinkedIn, and to your point a moment ago about touching your network and things like things like that, like I had heard that people could do that. But I didn't really know how to do it. Number one, much less virtually. Because again, a lot of this was happening right when you know right before COVID are right at the time of COVID. Just to give people a frame of reference here. The unhinged our rant was recorded on November 30 2019. The first episode of recruiting hell came out I want to say April 20 of 2020. So again, there was that time, but in that time you know, I was almost unemployed for most of most of 2020 in this case. So at the end of that year, I actually ran across something through promoting my show online and interacting with people on LinkedIn that the marketing director for a An agency that actually produce podcasts for businesses, you know, came across my path. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's somebody out here who actually like, like, these people are looking for people who know how to make a podcast, holy crap, I should probably, like, reach out to these people and say, Hey, maybe I can I'm maybe I'm your guy. And we had that interview, which was fantastic. got the job. And that was really kind of the the key turning point to where I said, Okay, I guess I'm kind of jumping into this with both feet, if you will, as far as taking a look at at content and continuing to network on LinkedIn, in the way that you described.
Leighann Lovely 15:45
That's awesome. That's, I mean, that's absolutely amazing. And you spend quite a bit of time with this organization. And then I remember when we talked, and you're like, I'm not with him anymore. And we talked again, and you said, I'm gonna get my own thing going?
Robb Conlon 16:02
Yeah, there were a couple couple steps in there, things went very well, initially, with that organization, you know, I got an employee of the month twice, fantastic. twice in a row, actually, we got to a quick upgrade to a higher position, things didn't quite work out the way that they were supposed to there. So we got busted back down to private, which wasn't as much fun. But at that point, and I will, you know, if somebody's listening to this, I'm sure you know, let's be authentic, let's be real. Like, if you get demoted at work, you kind of check out man, you kind of check out. And I I don't think I blame younger myself for that. I think if I had this, I was presented with the same thing today, I would probably just skip a bunch of steps that we're going to talk about here for all in a moment. But you know, it was one of these things where I just, you know, kept my head down, did my work and things like that and said, You know what, I've got to find something new. And so it was, it was good enough for the time being kept my head down. And then early 2022 rolled around. So during this time, I had a very good chance to meet a lot of wonderful people in the marketing and digital marketing world and who had their own shows that I managed and things like that. But if you fast forward to March of 2022, that's where this kind of all really comes to a head. There were some decisions made at my former agency that were we'll just call them unwise in this case, to, to say the least. And those unwise decisions resulted in a quarter of the company being let go at once. Now, you're an HR person, I do want to I do want to bounce this off of you. If you're firing people, do you call an all hands meeting and tell them that, hey, we're going to fire 10 of you, you might receive a phone call after this meeting?
Leighann Lovely 18:02
Oh, God, no, no, you don't do that.
Robb Conlon 18:06
But that's what happened. That's what happened. In this case, which I again, sometimes you learn how to build a better company by seeing what people do wrong. In this case, so that happened, we we got one of those 10 phone calls. In this case, we lost Russian Roulette, if you will. And it was about about noon, when I got that phone call on Thursday, March 3. And I said to myself, well, I can do one of two things. I can either literally just walk away, because what are you gonna do fire me? Just be like, Alright, see you later guys. Bye. Or I can take the time to shore up and do the best for people who are bystanders in this. And those will be my customers. I had 10 accounts at that point are 10 shows under management under seven accounts, I should say. And I had about five hours to tie off all of this production work and that not a lot of time per customer to be like, Hey, guys, here's what's going on. Plus, at that time, the business that I was working for did not communicate in any way shape or form to the customers that we were departing. A lot of them really liked their producers and things like that. Insofar as that one of my colleagues when they informed her to you know, talk to her customers, she I believe she dropped a four letter word in there, but she said you effing do it. You go girl, read it, read it. If you're listening to this, go, Hey,
Leighann Lovely 19:40
and here's the thing about that. Most companies, once they have terminated somebody, they don't say go to your customers and communicate to them. That is not absolutely positively not the way you handle a situation like that. Usually when you turn Need Somebody 10 minutes before you? Do, you cut off all of their access to their email to any proprietary information that they have? Because you these are people. And when people get really bad news, like, I don't know, how am I going to pay my rent? How am I going to pay my mortgage? How am I going to, you know, pay all of my bills, they have an extremely emotional reaction. Yes. And quite often, there are two people in the room or two people on the call, usually one of both sex, if there is, you know, a female boss that's doing this, they will have a male boss also sitting there, if you're a male employee, so that there can be no allegations of sexual misconduct, blah, blah, blah, if it's a female employee, and it's a male boss, vice versa, for all of that all of these precautions are all laid out in any HR department, if it has to be done virtually because you have a virtual workforce. The same goes is that you have a secondary witness, usually, if at all possible. Just in case, this employee comes back and tries to have any allegations of misconduct of the of the company. Never do you say, Hey, Rob, you're fired. Sorry, we gotta let you go. Now, if you could go and call all your clients, and let them know. I mean, unless they don't care, because now you are extremely emotional, extremely, at this point, because anytime you're dealing with the livelihood of somebody, there is emotion involved. And you're now putting your company at extreme risk for lawsuit. Because technically, even though you've just been terminated, as soon as they say go contact our employees, you are still acting as an employee of the company.
Robb Conlon 22:08
Right? They're not paying you for the time you're doing it. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely 22:12
And if you go and tell the the client to eff off or do something to that client, that client is not going to sue you rob, they're gonna they're gonna sue the company. So
Robb Conlon 22:28
yeah. It didn't make a whole lot of sense. If they said like, hey, today's your last day, you know, at five o'clock, you're done, which, okay, fine. That's kind of like a caveat there. But like, again, what are you going to do? You know, it's one of those things, but the so what I did and I don't believe in, in poaching people, I don't believe in any of these things like that, you know, but one thing I did was I really loved my customers, they were, they were, it's a very strange thing in business and in sales and things like that. Like sometimes you actually kind of like get to be friends with your customers and that, yeah, it's really, it's one of the most unique relationships in humanity, I think of like, hey, we do business together. We really like each other. We're like, business friends, I guess, I don't know, which I don't know what the relationships called. But like, it
Leighann Lovely 23:17
should be that way. If you are a salesperson that is constantly in communication, yes, you have to keep a level of professionalism. And that person is paying you for a service. But it's inhuman for you to not become empathetic to their needs at times. And to their you know, if you call them and you're talking to them like this, and you see that they're having a bad day. It would be very inhuman for you to not be like, Hey, you're right, like is you're doing okay? And you know, if you just completely ignore that they're gonna be like, he's kind of an asshole like, he doesn't care he doesn't. I personally have clients like that I have clients who tell me everything about their life, everything. And as much as as much as I as much as I want to be able to be like, How can I help you? What can I do? I have to make sure that I don't get completely involved. Because at the end of the day, I still one day may have to fire them as a client one day may have to sue them if they don't pay me. One day may have to a million and they may have to fire me as their business. So you Yes, they can become friends. But there's always that business aspect of I like you a lot. But,
Robb Conlon 24:57
right, we have to keep some of these arias in place? Correct? Not all of them. But yeah, so you know, we that was tough because you know, where do you overstep where you not overstep but what I did was for, for as many of my customers as I could I sent them just a little LinkedIn message. And I said, Hey, I'm done. You know, here they are, they don't have any work in here anymore. I've done everything I can with the time I was allotted. And I, I think that there's a, because I could have just walked away. And there were colleagues of mine that did and I no shade thrown their way for walking away. What happened to the 10 of us was, was not kind of his case. And I don't blame them for being a really upset and be being like, No, this is your frickin problem. Now, like you deal with it, like you, you made the best deal with it. So the, you know, what I simply said to my customers was, you know, I won't be able to really contact you via the normal channels. And just in case, I can't get a hold of you, or you can't get a hold of me on LinkedIn. Like, here's my email address. And that was the only thing I presented to to any of them before leaving, and again, no solicitation, nothing like that. But once I had sent that last one about 5pm, that day, I said, All right, I am done with this company that I just got fired from. Cool, let's unplug everything. And then I said, I think I can do what they did. And I think I can do it better. And that was a slightly cocky moment. But also a nice, a slightly confident moment. And so I went to bed that night. And I said to myself in the morning, we are going into business and betting on ourselves. And so the next morning, March 4, command day 2022. We opened Westport studios, for the first time. And as I was doing this, again, when you open a business, you know, this Leanda the first day is like, there's like a trillion things to do. And I like where do I start? There's, you can read a book or two and like, what's a man? You know, there's a couple little like, manuals, but it's like, for the most part, it's like, well, I need a website, I need to talk to people, I need to get sales going, I need to like, get a domain name. You know, there's all there's a list of
Leighann Lovely 27:25
a million Yeah, number I need an accountant.
Robb Conlon 27:31
Right, exactly. So I'm working on this for like the first two or three hours of the day, and all of a sudden, my phone rings. And I'm like, I look at it. And it's one of my old customers. I go on No, like, he didn't either get the message or he's wondering about something and I can't really help him. Now, caveat here, I could have helped him because they left access to the systems and us for two
Leighann Lovely 27:57
weeks, two weeks, which is ridiculous, which is ridiculous. And And technically, technically, if you did help them, they could have come back to you and reprimanded you. Or you could have gone back to them and been like, you should owe me money for helping your client. I mean that all that gets like to be really messy.
Robb Conlon 28:25
Messy, messy. But so this phone rang and bad back to the access thing for just a moment. Like, I also looked at how these things were stored on the drive space that we had access to. And again, I would never ever damage somebody's business. But I did a couple little clicks to see what could happen. If somebody had had the mind to just sink the ship, they could have, they could have just wiped it out. Because I now know because I for a time use the same type of file system. I now know that had I just gone and wiped everything out that it would have been a mess to get back. And, again, no hostility on this but just like you play you pay people to hack your your, your website, sometimes as a company, right? Like, is our website secure, right? But just looking at that going oh my gosh, there's like there's 100 customers data on here. There's there's 1000s of episodes of podcasts that could be gone with the click of a button. See
Leighann Lovely 29:32
now you and I have to have a conversation to make sure that I'm doing everything right and then
Robb Conlon 29:37
it's all good things you don't know as a brand new entrepreneur. Right? Exactly, exactly. And actually I'm fixing part of one of my mistakes of where I got in with like data storage at first right now it's actually I had to pause part of it while we're on this recording because it takes a lot of my internet connection but But enough of that, you know again, never would even as as upset as I was would never even consider harming somebody's business like that. No, no, no, not at all. The two wrongs don't make a right. But like just seeing that there was like, the big red button to hit was like,
Leighann Lovely 30:10
Oh my god. So,
Robb Conlon 30:12
back to that phone call. Yeah, lots of mistakes. Back to that phone call, though. It's turned out it was one of my customers. And I said his name is His name is James Robert Leigh. He's a wonderful guy. He's amazing. If you're not connected with him on LinkedIn, or something like that, go find JR. He's incredible. I pick up the phone and say, Hey, James, Robert, how you doing, man? And he goes. So Rob, my team told me I needed to call you and I'm part of he's like, in the back of my mind, like crap. This is really actually about something he needs. He's like, he says, they said, We should move our show to you. And like back of my mind, like my little little like, lizard brain is going. He said, What? Like, and I said, you want to move your show to us? And he goes, Yeah, what's gonna cost? And, again, voice in my head? Dude, we've been in business for three hours. I don't even know what my website is like, pricing. What's that? So. So I threw out a number for him. I just wrote a number. I'm like, hey, maybe we could make it work at this. And he's goes, Great. See, on April 1, I was like, Oh, okay. So now I had a side hustle at that time with another, another customer. And I'm like, now I got two customers. Now I got 4000 bucks a month coming in and revenue. And then like, this is day one, this is our three. And so I'm looking at this going. This might actually work. I have a lot of stuff to do. Yeah, that was it was a very like, a moment right after it. And so that was a very humbling moment, to number one have been sought out so quickly. But it was a moment that was repeated for every single one of my former customers.
Leighann Lovely 31:56
So you didn't have a non compete of any kind put in place.
Robb Conlon 31:59
They had a non solicit in place. They solicited you, they solicited me, you know, it's one of those things is I really, I took it to an attorney, I took it to it was a little bit laughable, because this this particular non non solicit was four sentences long and did not have the company name on it. And was not drafted by an attorney. To which my attorney said, Is this really it? And I said, Yes, it is bred, because this isn't worth the paper it's printed on. So now again, I don't believe in poaching people's customers, but I if they want to walk in the door of my shop, I'm all for that.
Leighann Lovely 32:39
And it comes it boils down to one simple thing. Service, great service and relationship. You You proved to them that you were capable. And despite the fact that you had no team, you had no business name. You had no website? Name that was it. Oh, you had you did have the name, okay. You had a name. They were they were willing to hitch their wagon to you, because they knew you were capable of servicing them. And you had the relationship and that outweighed any other concerns that they could possibly have. And that's all that it boils down to. Because when when it when you're working with a company, and people get so hung up on an I work with small entrepreneurs, I work with people who have been in business for a long time. And this is where people who are in marketing, like will completely go like bonkers with me. And, and I'm like, they're like, oh, yeah, you have to have a business name that really has a statement, you know, you really got to make sure that your business name is in line and people understand it and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, I beg to differ. I'm like, Yes. Is it important when you're out there marketing? Yes. But when you start a business, it's not about the business. It's not or it's not about the name of the business. It's not about your logo and marketing. Yes, fine. I understand. It is when you get to the sound of the marketing portion. But when you're starting out people get so hung up on Oh, what is my business name going to be? What is my logo gonna look like? What is my website going to look like? None of that matters. In the first like, very beginning when you are solopreneurs selling a service. What matters is your reputation and the relationships that you have people will flock to you. If you have a network of people who know you, like you and trust you. Yes, that's it. And
Robb Conlon 34:53
it's so funny because you know I I love my brand I feel my brand is very much in line with The way I want to run my company and things like that, and again, as a founder let you know. It's named after the street. I lived I live on the bike my wife came up with that. She's like, why don't you call it Westport? And like, that's pretty damn good. So let's let's go with that. But it's one of those things where it's been a very interesting journey of evolving that brand from Robins Westport westward as Rob to Westport is Rob and Adam and Kristen, and Abby and Emma and Isaac now, and there's, there's a half dozen of us now that this is all, like, if somebody asks them, you know, who do I work who you work for? You say, I work for Westport studios now. And that's a really nifty transition. But you have to really game that transition tightly, if you will, because a lot of times, you know, I'm still the primary salesperson here. I'm still the person that people you know, bring, you know, Hey, Rob, I've got this person who may want to meet you. And it's been a very interesting shift from the brand is Rob Rob is the brand to just peeling away from that ever so slightly, and kind of layer by layer. Of now the brand is Rob, the brand is not quite all Rob, Rob is is part of the brand, that the you know, incremental things back towards, you know, we are Westport Studios, which I kind of like, a little bit more anyway. So
Leighann Lovely 36:17
well, and that's hard for some people, some people, you know, go into business, and they're like, and I can't let go of this, I can't let go of that. But you are a true, you are you've become a true business owner, and not a solopreneur or just simply an entrepreneur, you are now a business owner. Right, have a successful business. And so now I have some questions about that. Go ahead. So as you got those clients rolling on, when did you know that it was time like, okay, we're scaling, I'm growing? When did you know it was time? Like I need to? I need to hire? Well. And you're a little bit different? Because you, you, you, I'm assuming you could you had two clients like right then? Right? You needed people to help. So when was that that you hired your first employee? When was it that you hired a bookkeeper? How did that growth happen? Growth
Robb Conlon 37:20
has been really interesting in that I love that you use you ask this question, because this is a super HRV kind of thing, right now, because one of the interesting things is, is it costs me a lot more to produce, like per podcast to produce one podcast than does produce 10 podcasts, there's a lot of stuff that overlaps on that, you know, there's there's a baseline cost of running the business, and then each additional customer you stack on makes better use of that baseline. So when I started this off, I really did, I didn't necessarily do the fiber deal. But it was one of those things of like, hey, I need to get XY and Z done for people. And I'm going to use resources that are not as permanent in this case. Now again, they the nice thing is that they've become permanent. But they are they was generally all just like contract project work initially, like, hey, I need you to make these two videos. They are a minute and a half long. And please make cuts here, here and here. You know, things like that. And so I started off with with Abby, who is my longest tenured colleague here, she's fantast. I just started doing a quick meeting. She's She's delightful. She's a student at Concordia here in Nozaki County, but Abby did some design work for me right off the bat, because I asked a connection of mine. I said, Dude, I don't know how to do graphic design. I can write, okay, I can mix audio. I can fumble through video, but I don't know how to do this design crap. And I said to him, his name's Greg. So Greg, is there anybody at your university? Who's looking for a job or, you know, super part time? And he goes, Yeah, let me go to the comms department. That sounds like where this should go. And sure enough, I got one email. From a wonderful young woman. Her name is Abby. She is now the student body president at Concordia University. She is incredibly successful. She's graduating this year. I'm super proud of her. I am so happy she's come on along. She has designed some of our most fun brands for this. And she's and again, a lot of this was like, hey, I need you for two hours, like this month at first. And so again, like this, these little project based things were really, really far few and far between. But now, you know, she and I talk basically have a one on one every two weeks in this case, but there's usually two or three things going on right now. And again, she doesn't work, you know, 40 a week or anything like that for me, but you know, she'll put in 567 hours and it's these, these sort of partial full because and I should say, to folks who are listening who are in HR and things like that, I believe in what I call a thriving wage. And this is something that's very deeply ingrained in me is that for much of my life, I worked for a wage that was underneath what I would say even not to say poverty level, but like, we couldn't do a whole lot with it, it was called Well, we can pay the pay the rent, and we can pay the power bill, and we can buy groceries. And that's pretty much it. And so that you can call that I suppose, a living wage. But is it really living if you don't get to have any fun or do anything else? No. So I believe in, I think it was FDR who came up with this concept of a thriving wage. So the minimum wage at Westport studios, so long as you're not on a, like a 90 day probationary period is $30 an hour. 30 bucks an hour. Wow. Because I believe in making sure that other people thrive to one of our core values at this company, is that the company works for all of us, not just those in charge. And that's, that's the greatest way I can show that to people is that, yeah, I could pay everybody 1250 an hour, I get lesser work, I'd have unhappy people, I'd have people bitching at me all the time about their wages. Or I can pay them a thriving wage, and help them try to focus on their development, and making themselves better and doing more as in like, Hey, can you do you think you can do this thing that is upcoming, you know, we're gonna pay you for it, obviously. But like, I'm really excited to see what you do with this brand, or, Hey, edit this audio this way, this time? What do you think, you know, so you get a lot more buy in. And this is for anybody who's in the in the HR realm. I learned from one of my former companies that I worked at that if you pay top, top third, you get some hella good talent, man. It's absolutely,
Leighann Lovely 42:01
and I'm in awe. First of all, because often people get to a certain level, a certain level or a certain threshold. And I'm not saying that you've gotten there yet. You know, it's usually when you get to you. I guess, I don't really know what that threshold is, is also and again, I don't want to pick on the age, you know, I really don't want to pick on No, you know, play the ageism card or whatever. But people who have experienced what you just talked about, you know, working at just that minimum of surviving, not being able to experience, you know, the, the going on vacations when you want to and being able and I I've experienced both, I've experienced just being paid enough. I've experienced working at a company where, you know, I kept getting promoted, but they were like, Yeah, we can't quite give you an increase yet. And I'm like, okay, so this promotion doesn't come with a wage and right, like, is that really a promotion? And then it was okay, we're gonna, we're actually gonna give you more responsibility. It's not a promotion, but and it's like, and eventually when I said, Well, I'm going to leave, and they're like, Well, why? I'm like, I, I've been here for three years, you've given me double the amount of work. And my pay has never gone up. And you're surprised?
Robb Conlon 43:32
Yeah. Good work should not be rewarded with more work.
Leighann Lovely 43:36
So at all, and then there's been jobs that I've had that I've made a ton of money. and been like, Oh, my God, why? Why are they paying me this much? And somebody's like, because you deserve that much. Because you work hard, because you're, it's not that much. And I'm like, oh, it's not. Because then I hear what other people and again, I know, I'm, you know, I'm in the industry, and I'm like, I'm finally being paid what I'm worth, yes. So for you to remember, for you to offer the opportunity for people to come in, learn, to have a voice to get the experience and to pay them in a way that allows them to still be able to, you know, thrive financially. That's amazing. Props to you. Because it's really easy for an entrepreneur to be like, Oh, I, I, I want to keep all this money for myself. Right? Because we're still you know, I mean, for me right now, I'm still in the feast or famine either I'm like, oh my god, I got a really good you know, this is really good client. I'm making a lot of money. And then I'm like, Okay, I gotta shove all this money away. And then I'm like, Yeah, but I gotta pay this person. I'm gonna try to Heroes least as possible, because I really got to keep that money just in case. It's, it's really easy to get into that mentality of, well, I didn't always get paid well. Right? You got to people have to stop thinking that way and start thinking in the way of pay them for what they're worth. do right by them now. And they will do right by you.
Robb Conlon 45:28
Yeah. And you know, this harkens back to one of the best pieces of advice I ever got was formed from a retail manager I used to work for he ran one of the most, most, the highest sales amount. Walmart's in Wisconsin. Interesting gentleman got paid a lot. Decent manager, decent manager. Well, one of the things he told me, I didn't get a lot of one on one time with him. One of the things I remember that stuck with me big time, was that investing in people is incredibly important at the beginning, because he told me that at that store that we both worked at, that it cost the company $3,000 to train a new cashier before they even scan one can of soup. And so I took that forward to say, you know, what, I saw what a revolving door that front end of cashiers was, I was the cashier supervisor. It was just like you'd have sometimes you'd have people last a day or two. And it's like, well, that you just flushed three grand down the toilet. And I'm looking at this for my own business of like I you know, training and onboarding and hiring and things like that. This is super important, because I can't afford to do that when you're a multibillion dollar corporation. Sure. 3000 bucks is a pinprick but like, but I can't do that. That's why I believe in investing in my people actually have a meeting that I am cooking up tomorrow with a connection of mine on LinkedIn to bring him in as a coach for my team to say, hey, here's how you make podcasts better. Here's how you edit better, here's how you what you can listen for, here's how you can, you know, make better and more enticing video and things like that. And I think that that's, you know, not only does that benefit me, they sit down, you know, he sits down with me. But if I have my team there with that, that's, you know, because I have to be careful too. Because, you know, if you have contractors, and if you're having people, you know, you got to follow the rules of the state, which I do. But it's one of those things where if I can just have them tag along and pay them to be at that meeting, like, they're gonna get so much out of it, even if I'm just asking the questions. So to, to go back to what you had asked earlier, I apologize, really a little bit windy on that first part, but like, what eventually then happened with, you know, bringing in additional people was that one of the things that I do not like to do, and if my team listens to this, it'll be really funny is that I just can't stand reading or whatever we call our episode blueprints. It's basically the layout of all the content, I just, I haven't had a ton of practice at it. I'm not very good at it. I, I have a, I have a different skill set. I can do it in a pinch. But I actually tapped a very good friend of mine, who had spent most of his life as a warehouse worker. And he is writing for me now. And you're like, what, what will what does what does a guy who drives a forklift have in common with writing? Well, he's always been a very good guy, he was great in English class, and he always has had a panache for storytelling. And it's kind of funny because we, we, when we were in college, we'd play Dungeons Dragons all the time, he would read the Dungeon Master telling the story for the rest of us to play with. And it's been really interesting to see him grow and evolve as writer, he's now a completely freelance writer, he works for me 35 hours a week, but he still goes out and blogs for other people that started his own business, which is incredible. At some point, you know, I'm gonna reach a point where I need him 40 hours a week, it'd be like, dude, just come on board. I don't know if that's as a contractor or as a W two. But that's, you know, that's I brought him in. And then over time, we found different ways to streamline our operations inside of the company. And that that oftentimes meant that, that Abby and Adam, who's my buddy, and our writer, and myself kind of had to work as a trio like, Hey, we're making this video. Like, after you make the frames, Adam, you edit the video, I'll slap it together and make everything you know, make it look great. But we found that earlier this year, that we could bring a whole bunch of things in house with some special tools that we have to edit these things. And we grew to a point where eventually we had so many customers now, you know, we've got about 12 In this case, that my time during the day is not best spent making videos or audio or things like that. So we hired Isaac, who is our audio and video engineer. And so it's then this wonderful little kind of like, almost like leaping onto a new platform kind of thing. Like if this other platforms to crumble away, you know, you're kind of jumping to that next platform and on that next platform is that next person. And so that HR has been kind of a challenge for us. Because, you know, it seems like having people being contractors is kind of at odds with the some of the things that I've preached earlier about making sure that people are taken care of, and things like that, because it doesn't include health insurance or anything like that. It's, it's a goal. It's a big goal, because that's if I can't take care of the people that work for me, that's a big problem. And somebody I met recently at a conference says, I need my dreams to be big enough to fit everybody else's dreams inside them. But
Leighann Lovely 50:53
you've done I mean, one, I believe that everybody, everybody has a superpower within them. And sometimes that is being a forklift driver. Totally. Sometimes that is a hidden, you know, hidden, something that they just have not had the opportunity to express because sometimes your path doesn't take you down, meeting the right person at the right time, or getting the job that you want at that moment, because you have to pay your bills. And that means becoming a forklift driver. And the fact that you're willing to see that superpower and give them the opportunity is amazing. You know, my husband, for instance, he works, he works, he's a printer. And the other day I said to him, I, I cannot for the life of me create a video, I am not good. I can I can create contact content. I hate editing it. I mean, I used to like it. But you know, after you do it 100 times, you're just like, Okay, I'm over that. I'm a little over listening to my own voice. I used to like it because it was you know, I get to listen back to it. And anyways, video, I've never done video. And so I engaged my husband in it. And I said, Will you do this? Now my husband is a DJ, he's in the DJ world. Okay, they do videos, they create videos, he creates the artwork for his for the music that they produce. And he's very, extremely talented. So I gave him all this, all this junk, all these recorded things. And I said, just, I need to get something out on YouTube about my business. And it would have taken me hours upon hours upon hours to do this. I gave it to him. And like 20 minutes later, he goes come on into my into my studio, and I was like, Okay, why? And he goes, Well, I want to show you the video. And I'm like, what, I just emailed that stuff to you. And he goes, Yeah, I put it all together. I'm like, wow, how, like, how did you do that? And I walk in there, and I listened to it. And I'm like, Yeah, I like it. And he goes, and I'm like, It's too long, isn't it? And he goes, Yeah, way too long. And I'm like, okay, and he goes, I told you that you can't have it be people stop watching if this, you know, video if you put it on YouTube, and, and so he's giving me all these suggestions. And I'm like, Oh, okay. And he put music in the background. And he puts, you know, all the stuff that I'm just like, you know, and then he goes now and so we fixed it. And he goes now when you have it put on YouTube, you have to do this because it's royalty free music and it's blah, blah. And I'm like what? Because you have to make sure that you it's royalty free. But if you don't, you know put who created it, then YouTube will bob and I'm like, I don't know what you're talking about. He has a superpower. But he can't. He can't go to a company and be like, Hey, I have a superpower. I've never done it in a corporate setting. But I can do this. And I'm like, yeah, how do you how do you give somebody the opportunity?
Robb Conlon 54:08
It's nice, right? I know.
Leighann Lovely 54:10
And the fact that you've done that, it that's awesome. And one day, one day when I have you know my thriving 20 plus 10 plus team and I you know, have to have somebody edit my podcast. He has all the tools. He has all the tools. Instead of hiring somebody else, I will probably just go okay, you're gonna work in my business, and you're gonna create all of my content, because he has all the tools to do everything. And he can do the DJ thing that he loves to do or find something else to do at maybe he doesn't want to work in my business. Probably not. He probably doesn't want me as his boss but sometimes
Robb Conlon 54:55
to making your hobby your your work can be he'd be a big thing. And it's funny, you mentioned that because that's exactly sort of what I've done. For, you know, you mentioned bookkeeping earlier is that that's always been, you know, fractional, fractional fractional. Well, my wife's really good with numbers, like, it's one of those things where it's like, it's her thing of like, she's the queen of budgeting to the point where, when I talked about those hard times earlier, when I was out of work, and everything like that, we actually gained money in our bank accounts. Like, we cut things so hard to the bone that we gained money in bank accounts on one income and an unemployment check.
Leighann Lovely 55:33
Wow, so she needs to come over to my house, and she
Robb Conlon 55:36
will, she will get your stuff straight, that's for sure. Well, that's fine. You know, I bring her in. And actually, she and I just had a nice afternoon on Saturday, where we went through the books of the business. And the neat part about that was was that when we looked at everything that was, you know, kind of at the end of the day, you know, we're we're looking at good margins and things like that, and being able to say, like, okay, we're actually running this business in a decent way. Now, again, I'm not an accountant. She's not an accountant, you know, just want to make sure we have enough set aside for taxes and whatnot, but like, taking the business to the next level of Hey, is it stable, hey, can run for a time without me out in the income and things like that, and hiring very slowly. I'm a big, big, big believer in hire slow fire fast. As far as you know, bringing people into the organization. And yes, when you're the founder, and that's your wife and things like that. It's kind of like, get over here. But at the same time. It's been, you know, being a little bit selective with that, and I've made mistakes in hiring. I, we had, we had one gentleman and this is no shade at him. This was me getting this was me taking him and putting him in the completely wrong position. 100% my fault, there's, there's no way like, almost set them up, I would say 90% set them up to fail. Like that, like that. Just, I still feel bad about that. Because he was going through a real rough stuff at that time. And we'll just say that the month of May and June here. We're really interesting. From a people standpoint, just because like, I can't I can't fault somebody for having a massive family event, and not getting things done. Like, I just can't. So it's it's one of those things where we learned that sometimes you have to really seek out that one talent that people have, like you mentioned that superpower, right? And that is what you hire for your hire truly for that skill set. Not just the the attitude. Yeah, in this case.
Leighann Lovely 57:44
Well, we are coming to time, I could talk to you forever. But Rob, there are no words to thank you for taking the opportunity to, again, wrap up the entire series of Let's Talk HR. It has been a wild ride. You helped me launch this, you have helped with advice throughout the entire podcast. And it's and it's life. And I you know, from the bottom of my heart, I truly appreciate that. And you have also helped with and this is my first real announcement. And there will be announcements. You know, coming out soon, shortly, even before this actually episode launches about my new podcast that will be coming out. The love your sales podcast that is tied directly to my business that launched in January, which is going to be much more in line with my brand still bringing in my quirky personality, and you know, antics and rants about random stuff that I always seem to bring in, in, you know, the people that I interview with. But, again, Rob, Your journey has been, like many entrepreneurs, not a straight line. But a successful one. And I thank you again, for being a friend. Oh,
Robb Conlon 59:17
absolutely, absolutely. And it's, it's neat to see these new chapters come up because every one of them has been better than the last in this case. And it's just, it's fun to see this growth over time for you and I'm really, really happy with what you've you've made for yourself so far. And don't ever get too hard on yourself with this because this whole entrepreneurship thing is is a lot like kind of hrs you have to do it right. Not everybody has the the roadmap Yes, there are best practices out there. But what are best practices may work for some but not for all so I know that you'll find you'll get your bag as they say this case. And you know, at the same time I'm looking at it myself and I think I came to the Just before we hit record here too, I was like, You know what, at some point in time I'm going to step into a true like sea level role at my company. I might need a fractional.
Leighann Lovely 1:00:10
So I'm here I know yeah
Robb Conlon 1:00:13
absolutely fantastic so I appreciate you my friend thanks for having me on and thanks for bringing me on to again bring this full circle and closer off.
Leighann Lovely 1:00:21
Well this is LeighAnn lovely signing off for the last time of Let's Talk HR humanizing the conversation. Have a great day. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this wouldn't be possible so don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPY
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, company, podcast, customers, work, hr, case, business, started, rob, linkedin, pay, entrepreneur, recruiting, years, episode, westport, superpower, brand, abby
Wednesday Dec 06, 2023
Wednesday Dec 06, 2023
Jill Lublin, an international speaker and author with expertise in publicity, networking, kindness, and referrals. Jill, a best-selling author of four books, including "Profit of Kindness," shares her passion for real-world publicity, emphasizing the importance of visibility and credibility for businesses. Learn about Jill’s latest book Guerrilla Publicity and the misconception that publicity is only for celebrities. What an amazing conversation with Jill!
Contact – Jill
Website - https://jilllublin.com/
Free Gift - publicitycrashcourse.com/freegift and jilllublin.com
Website - http://PublicityCrashCourse.com
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann lovely. Let's get this conversation started.
I have an amazing guest today. Jill Lublin is an international speaker on the topics of publicity, networking, kindness and referrals. She is the author of four best-selling books including get noticed get referrals and co-author of guerrilla publicity and networking magic. Her latest book profit of kindness went number one in four categories. Jill is a master strategist on how to position your business for more profitability and more visibility in the marketplace. She is CEO of strategic consulting firm, and it has 25 years of experience working with over 1000 people plus national and international media, Jill teaches a virtual publicity bootcamp and consults and speaks all over the world. She has spoken on many stages with luminaries such as Tony Robbins, Jill also leads a conscious kindness community, visit the link below in the show notes to get your free gift. Or you can go to Jill lubalin.com. Jill, I am so excited for you to join me today.
Jill Lublin 02:25
I'm thrilled to be here, Leighann and thank you so much for having me. Why don't you start out by telling me and the audience a little bit about yourself? Well, I know you did this great intro for me. And I would tell you, you know, my some of my proudest accomplishments are my books for them. In certainly helping so many literally 1000s of small business owners get more publicity. And I look at it as spreading your light to the world, your gift to the world. And so that's exciting. And I run a conscious kindness community. And those are the things I'm I'm happy about and proud of. And, you know, like everyone, I've had many steps along the way, some switchbacks, some fall downs, you know, and most importantly, doing what I love and loving what I do now. And that's awesome. I love that phrase, loving what he or say that again, loving what I do, and doing what I love, that's, I absolutely love that. Because what if you love what you do, you'll never work a day in your life. And that, you know, I recently went to an event and the speaker spoke about finding your true purpose and being able to match that purpose. You know, align that with your life. And if you can truly identify what your purpose is, then, you know, you everything else kind of falls into place. And it's, it's completely true. So, absolutely love that. So you are a best-selling off author for books for books. You're a speaker, you're a teacher, let's talk about it.
Jill Lublin 04:02
So, you know, the thing that I'm big on has is helping people get real world publicity because listen, a big PR agency is going to cost you four to 5000 a month and more a month and more. And you know, I know how to get this stuff done in looking like the big guys as I like to say but without spending a fortune. So that's that's really always been my jam and I stayed in my lane I you know, I believe and liked for me stay in my lane. That doesn't mean I mean, I'm multiple interests and but I've just I've just found a groove, you know, and I think sometimes when you find a groove, it's a good thing to keep that groove going.
Leighann Lovely 04:46
Absolutely. So your most recent book. That's the publicity, the Gorilla. Yes. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about that without giving away any trade secrets. Oh, you know, I
Jill Lublin 05:03
Love gorilla publicity. That's this one here. Yeah, it's actually my third book to be exact. But the truth is, it just came out as a third edition again. So every time a new book comes out in a new edition, I consider it new. Right? Right. And it's filled with great, easy things to do to get your publicity done using time and imagination. And to do things the right way, how the media appreciates it that gets you seen, heard and paid, using publicity as a primary strategy. So great fun to write. And it's part of the Jay Conrad Levinson, guerrilla series. For those of you familiar with guerrilla marketing, this one's called guerrilla publicity. And it's really the focus of get it done publicity. I'm, I'm a practical kind of woman, I want people to get things done, to have ease with it to be consistent and persistent in the marketplace with publicity. So gorilla publicity is oriented toward those actions.
Leighann Lovely 06:07
So let me ask you a question. When I hear of publicity, I think, well, you know, publicity is for the, the rich and the famous for the stars for the public speakers for so let's let's talk about publicity at its at its core, you know, who are your target audience? Who are the people who need publicity?
Jill Lublin 06:29
How about listening right now all of you need publicity. If you're a business person, if you're in business, whether you're a solopreneur, or have one or two people working with you, which by the way, is most of who I work for. The reality is, people need to hear of you. Because you can be doing great work what, you know, whatever area you're in. And if no one knows about you, then what good is it you know, so, to me, that's fine, if you want just be heads down all the time. But if you want an easy way to attract, and that is it's an attraction, strategy, and monetize as you publicity monetizes you multiplies you and magnifies you. So that's why I love it. Because it's really about, you know, kind of a gift that keeps on giving. And what's beautiful is that the reality is, when you stand out in the marketplace, because you got an article, it could be in your small town newspaper, in your chamber commerce newsletter, it could be radio, TV, in blogs, and podcasts, all of that matters, and everything counts. And so really, what I encourage everyone to do is create what I refer to as visibility building activities and put them into your calendar 30 minutes a week, if you do that, consistently 30 minutes a week, I promise you great results in your publicity.
Leighann Lovely 07:57
So that you intrigued me. I don't know if you saw my MeeGo okay, what is that? So what was the phrase that you just used? 30 minutes a week, you put? What How did you say
Jill Lublin 08:08
that? Visibility, building activities,
Leighann Lovely 08:11
visibility building activities. And so what is all entailed in that?
Jill Lublin 08:18
So one thing would be, go to Google Alerts, okay, Google Alerts and put your name in there. So that way, when you're spoken up in the press, you will know it, because sometimes, you know, something will get picked up, and you want to know it necessarily. So Google Alerts really helps handle that. And even more exciting in Google Alerts. For instance, when the Prophet of kindness came out, I put in the word kindness. Now I know when any of the media is talking about kindness and being a kindness expert, because I wrote the book on it. You know, I can comment. And the other piece of that is, by putting the word kindness in, do you know, I found out that world Kindness Day is November 13, I didn't know that before I wrote a book. So um, kindness. And what I would recommend to all of you is, put that phrase put that what you help others with, and that way, you know, when the media is talking about that, which is very helpful for creating more visibility, that's a great place to start with a very specific PR strategy.
Leighann Lovely 09:27
Very interesting. So, you know, I regularly google myself because I want to see like, where am I at in my, in my visible am I? And because of you know, because of the podcast because of you know, I'm everywhere you can you which is wildly weird, you know, as it's built up over time, but actuation it's really cool right where you can but to in order to drive it properly. What you just said was putting the phrase or alerts towards when people are talking about, for instance, you know, my business, fractional sales or that kind of thing. That is, is an idea that I never thought about so that I can understand what's happening in my industry and then shift or cater, you know, my marketing strategy, Marvin, Mike my publicity strategy to what is really becoming visible to the general public, right?
Jill Lublin 10:30
That's exactly it, you got it perfect. And, you know, to just broaden that, and like, in your case, you could use do sales you could do, you know, it doesn't have to be the word fractional sales, although that's very specific. So I always encourage people to think broadly, and then sometimes go very narrow, and that that's powerful. But no, there's multiple ways to, to wonderful to different aspects and showing up in publicity. And so I like to think I'd like you to think of yourselves like an octopus, you know, with beautiful tentacles, and that's you're reaching your tentacles into multiple places to be seen and heard. And, frankly, publicity builds that trust, and that like no factor that people think they know you, which is great. And they want to do business with you, and they see who you are. And they make good decisions on that.
Leighann Lovely 11:24
Right. And it's kind of creepy when people you know, think they know you. And I'm having a podcast you there's a lot of people who know a lot of facts about me, and I'm like, Wait, how do you know that? And I'm like, oh, yeah, right. Right. Right. And you listen to my podcast. Great. But that is totally true. And you do want people to feel like they know you. Because yeah, the know, like and trust factor. No. Hopefully they like me from listening to me, and maybe they hate me. I don't know, probably not gonna get business from that right.
Jill Lublin 11:56
Now, but you will, you know, frankly, engage people and that that's really what's most important here is engaging people to be engaged with you. It's really about oh, I call it the I've heard of her somewhere syndrome. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Luckily, yeah, I've heard of her somewhere. And that's what we want for each one of you. And the truth is, sometimes they won't remember where they've heard of you. Let's see. What's it at a local meeting? Was it at in a national article? Was you on TV or radio where you heard from on a podcast? The reality is, it doesn't really matter. What matters is they've heard of you somewhere. And when you get publicity, it will create that ongoing, powerful I've heard of you somewhere syndrome. You know, it's interesting Lambie, it teach a publicity breakthrough boot camp, and we do you know, every person is in there. We want to know, where did you come from? Did you hear me on lands podcast? Did you? You know, did you see something or saw me speak somewhere? And we do really ask and you know, what's fascinating to me, about 20% really that high? Up people cannot remember where they've heard of me. But they can view and that's all part of me somewhere. Right? And you know, sometimes it's a referral. Sometimes it's it's they did see me speak, just don't remember. But does it really matter? They saw an article they heard a podcast, right? And can you know, it's also good to know where people are coming from listener? I had a woman who sold 42 books and a 15 minute podcast, so wonderful. Is that right? So? Also want to know what what's working? Well,
Leighann Lovely 13:32
and has you ever? Our first meeting, we talked? And I think one of the first questions I was was Joe, hey, it's great to meet you. Weird. How did we connect? And both of us went? Um,
Jill Lublin 13:46
we don't know. Don't know.
Leighann Lovely 13:48
But we heard of each other somewhere. Exactly. It was probably through a, you know, a referral of somebody saying, Hey, you should check this person out. You guys should talk. But you're, you're so unbelievably Correct. There's so many times where names are thrown out there and you, you LeighAnn lovely, or Jill want your name to be the name that somebody heard of somewhere. Exactly. You know, I'm to the point where I'm like, Hey, if you write my name on a bathroom wall, that's okay. No, just gets a little weird, doesn't it? Okay. So I want to talk about you know, because we have a finite amount of time, I want to talk about the the kindness What did you call it? I was going to call it
Jill Lublin 14:37
called a kindness circle or kindness circle, kindness community,
Leighann Lovely 14:42
The kindness community. Let's I want to talk about this and and let me preface this by saying that the world needs that the world needs it ever more with so much negativity on so many different social platforms? Because people feel like they can Just be negative and harassing and, and having more people come together and say, Hey, let's, let's try to be kind, let's create kindness in our group I just commend you for, you know, talking about that and creating, you know, even just using that word reminds people that they need to be kinder to each other. So, now, let's talk about your kindness community.
Jill Lublin 15:33
So first of all, you know, when I wrote the prophet of kindness, I felt that whisper in my ear, I want you to do kindness circles, like that was a an instruction for me. And I was busy promoting my book. I mean, I'm an expert in publicity. And, frankly, I was getting on Fox News Network talking about kindness. I got on seven of them in the first 30 days of the book coming out. In Las Vegas, in Los Angeles, in San Francisco at CBS Morning News in Virginia, I mean, great stuff was happening. So I was busy promoting and frankly, spreading the message about kindness is what we were really doing. I've been in Ink Magazine and Forbes magazine twice talking about kindness in business, and what sort of what is its effect. But here's so here's the cool thing. Through all this, I thought I gotta get those kinds of circles going right. And then COVID happened, I thought, one now's a good moment, and, and actually started putting out the call, you know, come on, in, let's spend an hour with conscious kindness and help each other. And by golly, the first one 660 people showed up. And now we've got over 1000 people in the community, and we meet at the third Wednesday of every month, and we spend an hour, we have two networking circles, and everything's on Zoom. And 110 minute speaker, amazing people, I've had Marcy Shaima, who wrote Happy for No Reason and Chicken Soup for the mother's soul. And I have the gentleman who did the kindness diaries on Netflix, I've had amazing people who are in multiple environments of kindness. And we're going to celebrate what Kindness Day, November 13. We do that every year. And we celebrate kindness every day, through what I call conscious acts of kindness. And I always ask people just do one a day one conscious act of kindness a day, imagine the difference it would make in our world, like, Wow, and so again, third Wednesday of every month, please, I'm going to post for you and please put it in the shownotes. We invite your listeners to come it's completely free. And
Leighann Lovely 17:42
That's amazing. Because I've I you know, a past actually, I don't know if it was past guests or not, but I've had, I have somebody else who has actually created the kindness bucket, where it's a community that that intentionally goes out and, and makes comments on Facebook, it's a community, because they're trying to combat such negativity, you know, and that's it. Here's the funny thing about kindness, and about just creating doing one a day. You do that one consciously, once a day, within 30 days, maybe 40 days, you will start unconsciously doing that on a regular basis. And I will tell you that when even something as simple as somebody opening the door and holding the door open for me, it gives me that Oh, thanks. Like it puts a little smile on my face. Because it's somebody's thinking of somebody other than just themselves and in our society. As busy as we are as much as we're hustling. People get so absorbed and so and I'm not saying that people are mean oh, how dare you not open a door for somebody else. It's the world is busy. But for somebody to stop for a moment and be outside of their own head and recognize people around them and do those little things. It spreads so fast.
Jill Lublin 19:15
Yes, and you know, such simple acts like you suddenly it's opening the door for someone, it is smiling, having a smile down the street, sometimes I'm trying to smile at someone and they're I don't even know where they are. It's like, just smile back. It's really a simple thing. But even if they don't I know that I've done that. And perhaps that changed something. And of course we are kind just because right there's a reason it's just an act that comes from your heart and that is authentic and sometimes yes, it's gonna require something of you. Listen, my neighbor who I hardly knew and this is one of my things is get to know your neighbors. That's a common thing, right? It's such a simple thing, but so many of us actually don't even know our neighbors anymore and cluding me He who lived next door to this wonderful woman, and frankly, I found out her husband went into dementia, health dementia care. You know, and, and I just remember I found out she fell in her driveway. Okay, so I brought over food. We've been friends ever since we go out to dinner every week, we she makes me meal, she's a really good cook. We, you know, go out to lunch together. We just, we, we just help each other, you know. And it's really sweet. And it's amazing to me how many years I didn't know her and took something. But that something was me also practicing an act of kindness and reaching out, you know, I do think the busyness factor is such a big thing. So, you know, honestly, if I'm so busy, by the end of the day, I'll just look to see who can I send a nice text to, right? You know, who can I write a handwritten letter I actually have on my calendar, it's on my calendar. Every Monday, it says right to handwritten notes. Okay, now I have to do it on Monday. But by the end of the week, I will have written two handwritten notes to somebody. So that's something I don't know about you. But I love getting handwritten notes. Now,
Leighann Lovely 21:18
I yeah, I do I enjoy opening them. And I'm like, Oh, my god, somebody was actually thinking about me enough to sit down and actually hand write it versus just sending an email or a text or whatever that might be. And, you know, bringing up the neighbor thing,
Jill Lublin 21:32
I think, I think what we're talking about this, so I get this these cute, little I'm a cute, the happy face stickers, the happy face stickers. In my kind of circle, she sent this to me, just you know, a role of kindness of happy stickers, right? So when people ask me to do book endorsements and testimonials, which I get that requests a lot, I'll do it. And I'll put a little happy sticker on their envelope. So somebody who's in a mastermind, and he comes up to me goes, I can't believe you put that happy sticker on it, I really needed to see a happy face the day I opened your envelope, you know, and so it keeps going, right? It's just simple, fun, and not fun, or whatever things including a smile, including just make a difference. But go ahead. I'm sorry,
Leighann Lovely 22:18
No, and I was gonna say I think, you know, during COVID, I think that, especially for me and my community, I live with a lot of first generation homeowners. So they're, you know, in their 70s, some of them are even older than that. And, you know, I was going out to the grocery store, you know, when I needed to, but I would call my neighbors and say, Hey, I'm making a trip to the grocery store, do you need anything, and, you know, and they would email me back, they gave me a little list, and I would pick up what they needed. And I would deliver it, because they were trying to stay, you know, in their homes as much as possible, because they were up, you know, the higher risk. And that has just, I mean, they are so good to me, they are so good to my husband, my daughter, my daughter is five and I mean they every single holiday on her birthday, they come over and give her a hand delivered gift. I'm like, Wow, you guys are way over the top. But I mean, it we had moved in, right, right before COVID Hit like literally a couple of months before COVID head and it was like, wow. And we've just become so close. Because of that those small little acts of kindness. Like goes so far?
Jill Lublin 23:33
Oh, that's so beautiful. You know, the COVID did a very interesting thing for us that, you know, sort of a good news of it. And that was to, in my opinion, make us more conscious of those around us. And how could we reach out? How could we be more kind? How can we be more flexible? You know, I think it taught us that if you paid attention, and one of the things I talked about an in the profit of kindness is what I call the return on kindness principles, rocks, right? And one of those rocks is is compassion, like what you did right? And asking how can I help you?
Leighann Lovely 24:08
Yeah, absolutely. And that's that that is one of the rules of I think in business networking. It should always ask first, but if we then lay in the principle of kindness in into that, look at how powerful we could be as humans. Well,
Jill Lublin 24:27
that is the point it's like, imagine this, you're great already in business. Wonderful. Now add on that because guess what kind companies get more publicity. In everybody. I interviewed kind companies or the CEO or the main person. If they were kind guess what else? Everybody who worked for them was happier. The people, their clients and customers happier they were more profitable. Right and across the board. Everything was elevated in terms of measurement. It was due to kindness. Right? And
Leighann Lovely 25:04
I've talked with I've talked to people on previous episodes about, you know, having actually having an entire sales force at your fingertips as a business if you only treated your people extremely well paid them. Right you would and you know, treated them. With kindness, you have an entire, you have the ability to have your entire workforce, literally acting as little mini marketing people out there talking about oh, I love the company I work at Oh, really? What company do you work at? Oh, I work at XYZ company. Oh, should I come in work there? Oh, my God. Yeah, we're hiring. I mean, right there. That's simple sales pitch if, again, you know, and it goes on all different types of levels. Anyways, I digress. I'm not gonna get into that. But what I do want to know, a little bit more about your publicity bootcamp? How often? Do you do that? And how does that work? How long is
Jill Lublin 26:03
it? Oh, I my policy breakthrough boot camp is a get er done. Short days, I'm in to short, I think people are busy. And I want to honor that. So I don't go these long days, that just short focus, we have a media panel, like real people in the media, who actually tell our participants what works and what's hot and what's not. So that's really good. They actually get to pitch them. And everything is live and interactive. There's constant breakout sessions, I give people real things to do that are important for publicity messages. And, and we're, we're really focused on using publicity, to drive sales and to get leads and to create visibility, credibility, and trust in the marketplace. So it's all oriented toward that. It's all on Zoom. And it's very affordable. And I'm spilling all my secrets, and really empowering people to get their publicy done. And they're held like once a quarter usually.
Leighann Lovely 27:03
Oh, that's awesome. That's awesome. Because I think that any any business or any, any brand new business owner could use a better understanding of how to really hit the market hard, especially when they're on a budget, and to use that budget properly the first time versus having to reinvent the wheel multiple times to try to get it right the first time. Right.
Jill Lublin 27:31
Exactly. Exactly.
Leighann Lovely 27:35
Awesome. Well, awesome. So I have a question of the season that I would love to ask you, before we wrap up. What do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Jill Lublin 27:52
Hmm, well, certainly a time of I'll call it, hibernation, you know, I, I actually saw it as that. And I think those of us who were able to adjust and recreate, like, I put all my programs on Zoom. And I think what will go down in history books, of course, is the sadness of it. And, and yet the also the ability to see a new way. And I think that has happened in major companies now that they've got workforces that go, I like working from home, and I can be very productive. And I don't need to do things the old way. So to me, it's about turning the tables into new ways of doing things. And we have been now trained on Zoom, we, you know, are comfortable people are training, all kinds of things on Zoom yoga, and classes and healing and, and doing things business that we never did before. And I think we're far more efficient in certain ways. If you know, if you're able to use it, do it and recreate. So I think to me, that's been a big lesson, a big learning that we can do things differently. And that it's all possible.
Leighann Lovely 29:06
Yeah, that's absolutely I completely agree. You know, the world was sent into shock, but I think that we've proven that we are able to prevail, regardless of the circumstances. So it's awesome. So if somebody was interested in reaching out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Jill Lublin 29:29
Well, I would love for you to go not only to the kindness circles and come and join us, but also go to my free gift, which will be also posted in the show notes. It's my publicity Crash Course action guy and it's really fun more tips to get things done and also in it is an invitation to attend a live free masterclass with me where you get to ask questions and be present and get things handled for yourself so that that's what I'd love to give you And of course, Jilllublin.com You can find me too and just reach out. It would be great.
Leighann Lovely 30:07
Wonderful. Jill, thank you so much for having this amazing conversation. I really appreciate your time today and yeah, definitely check out I will put those those links in the show notes so you can go and check out you know, all of the things that that Jill just listed and get your claim your free gift. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPY
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
publicity, kindness, people, talk, book, jill, great, put, write, google alerts, create, love, podcast, community, work, marketplace, zoom, heard, visibility, happy
Wednesday Nov 29, 2023
Wednesday Nov 29, 2023
Maria Kellis shares her insights on the significance of HR and the often-overlooked value it brings to companies. Drawing from her diverse background as an MIT graduate, international speaker, bestselling author, and business professional. Maria emphasizes the integral role HR plays in fostering employee engagement, motivation, and overall company success. She advocates for a non-judgmental approach to understanding individuals within a team, highlighting the importance of emotional and human support alongside business considerations. Throughout the conversation, Maria emphasizes the need for balance, self-leadership, and a holistic view of human potential in the evolving landscape of leadership and AI integration.
Contact Maria
Linkedin – https://www.linkedin.com/in/mariakellis/
Website – https://mariakellis.com/
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started. Maria Kellis is a sought after leadership coach, intuitive business consultant, inspirational speaker and best selling author. With experience that spans multiple continents. Maria's journey is one of resilience, passion and a dedication to elevate individuals and organizations in their pinnacle, an MIT graduate, she seamlessly merges her business acumen and spiritual insight to offer transformative strategies, particularly in transmuting adversity into triumph. Maria firmly believes in the transformative power of inner work to facilitate external success. Maria, thank you so much for joining me today. I am very excited to talk with you.
Maria Kellis 01:57
Thank you for having me.
Leighann Lovely 01:59
So why don't you start off by telling my art or the audience, a little bit about yourself, and you know who you are?
Maria Kellis 02:11
Absolutely. And to start with, I'm excited to be here, I feel that the conversation around HR is incredibly important. Because HR tends to have a bad rap. It's almost that they're the people that everybody says, Who cares about HR, or they're like, oh, we'll just use HR is like, it's a thing. And we forget the value that HR has in our lives in our companies, I believe that our companies are stronger, because of our human potential. In fact, a company can go down, because the employees are not working to sustain the company and the company can survive or thrive, because the employees care. And HR plays a central role in that. So I might my background is that I used to be an engineer, I graduated from MIT then I was in business. I actually graduated from Stanford School of Business. And at MIT. So I used to be in startups have always been startups, and we've always had hire people. And that's when my respect for hires came in. Because I realized that we, in the beginning, we always talked about the A players, and how to hire those. And I realize it's not just a player's team, everybody has a role. And it's not about looking at somebody as an individual, but looking at the team as a whole, that makes a difference in the company. So I have had my own personal journey that got me to be who I am today. And this journey has been, I'm gonna say difficult. In 2004, ended up being in a wheelchair. And I had to learn how to walk again, which is not exactly as easy as it sounds, while actually it's as difficult as it sounds. And I remember realizing that everything is a perspective. At the time, I had a tremendous amount of pain. And I realized, oh, I have a tremendous amount of neuropathic pain. So instead of thinking, I am broken, I realized, oh, I have something to work with. And I started saying that pain is not bad. It's just something I need to remap. And so I started remapping pain. I'm like, huh, that pain was hot. That pain was called that pain is movement. That means pain is done. hang out, that pain is falling out. Pain is hitting something because I didn't pay attention. That pain is way too close. But that's when I realized that when we make things good and bad, we are judgmental, and we're not really looking at what we have. So coming back to HR, when we look at people who say, well, that person is good, and that person is bad, well, are they? They're just people. Are they motivated to work? Do they have good heart? They have, like, realization? If they're there to clock in hours, okay, maybe I will agree with you. But if they're there to do work, it's not so much a employee prom, but it's really a management role. Did we train them properly? Did we give them all the resources they need? are we supporting them? Are we taking care of more than just the business side? Are we taking care of the human side? The emotional side? So all those questions are kind of a non judgmental way of looking at people and, and just really being human?
Leighann Lovely 06:09
Yeah, there's so much Well, first of all, I agree with everything that you just said. But there's so many nuances to a lot of what you said with, you know, nurturing, and it's really about putting people in the right seat on the bus, making sure that they were have the proper expectations for each human individual, we can't put somebody in a spot and expect, you know, a certain level of work if they don't have the proper training, the proper tools, the proper, you know, support, if we're not providing that to them as managers, right.
Maria Kellis 06:53
And I find that we, were I, I'm gonna just spell it out, we're in an age where AI is everywhere. And it's only the beginning, still AI more and more, it's going to be taking care of the repetitive analytical tasks that we may or may not need anymore. So we need humans to be humans more than any other time. And we need humans to be the strong humans that they are. So if we're just making them trying to replicate machines, like there are little machines that do things repetitively, it's not going to work. Because first we have tools that right now are supplementing that, and will become better. When I was in college, I remember I had written my thesis in a Mac, and the Mac crashed at the time. And, and I had to like I thankfully had a printout and had to retype the whole thing. So this does not happen anymore. Right? The we have cloud recordings and everything saved automatically and you don't have to remember to press Ctrl S it just saves and things like spell checking. We have Grammarly and we have native tools in Word and Google Docs. I use Google doc these days, but English, and we have charged up when I want to write something and I'm like, give me five versions of this. And any does. So jobs that used to be not so glamorous, are sort of disappearing. So I believe that now we're really seeing the value of human potential which is the humanity and that's what we get to nurture. Absolutely.
Leighann Lovely 08:54
And, you know, you say we have Grammarly. We have spellcheck we have you know, spellcheck is one thing but having tools like Grammarly, that that checks, you know, that checks everything. Like I remember when I was younger, and I was I was at a early in my career at a job and my boss was an English major. And I would type up an email and I would send it to her and she would email me back with the reply. And then below, she would fix all of my grammar errors. I'm like, you've got to be kidding. Okay, well, this is you know what, I took it as a learning you know, opportunity. I was horrible. Horrible at spelling, horribly grammar. I still am still am to this day, but you wouldn't know because now we have. We've got Grammarly. We've got all of these AI tools that basically can make the worst writer in the world look like the best writer in the world.
Maria Kellis 10:00
And in a sense, it's even in the field, I feel that as we are becoming more and more international, as we are opening up our companies and ourselves to international pool of talent, that people are not native English speakers, and that's okay. It's sort of now I am not a native English speaker, and probably not the best writer, I use chargeability daily, I have an email, I type sort of what I want to say, and I'm like, Okay, make it this job. And then it does. And I don't have it, it changed my life, I used to say, there's two technologies that changed my life, cell phones, and GPS, and I'm adding charge up to that, because up to now the tools that we had for so ghost writing, or I'm gonna say, like, just writing tools that they were okay. But they sounded like machine. And now, it's about coming up with ideas. So I wrote an e book, that's actually I can give to the audience, which is the AI and became young, so kind of marrying felt older wisdom with modern tech, and for enhancing leadership. And I purposely wrote that book using chatting for fun, because I'm like, let's see what happens. It took me on less than two weeks to write the book, which is to me tremendous. And I could see how, if I wasn't in charge, if I wasn't telling the AI to go one direction or another, then it will just go somewhere else. And I was like, I don't know that this is what I want to say. Yet, when I was really clear in that direction, really clear on what I needed really clear where I was going, then it became a tense, it became an incredible experience, collaborative experience. It's like I had my own personal writer that was available for any time, I needed a writer period. And, and that was a game changer. And more than more than that, when I, at one point, I had done my own research, and I'm like, oh, based on this research, and this articles, can we talk? Because I was writing about case studies. And I'm like, Well, can we talk about this study? And, and it replied, I'm an AI. I have access to the web. I don't actually need your research.
Leighann Lovely 12:45
Oh, is that funny? Oh, I
Maria Kellis 12:49
was laughing. I'm like, Okay, I guess I don't have to really do research or just like saying, Well, okay, look at different articles and tell me what's happening.
Leighann Lovely 12:56
Right? That I mean, see, and that's, that's amazing and scary at the same time. For it to come back. Because you almost feel like you're talking to a person who's actually getting, you know, snippy or snarky, or we, I don't know what the right word is, you know,
Maria Kellis 13:15
I'm gonna go with with a, but in a sense, that is the magic. Isn't that amazing, though, like to realize that we have built tools that make jobs that used to be sort of a boring, sort of, like, repetitive become a nice thing. Right? It's almost like the sky is the limit. I feel that we are at the time when the humanity of us is in the forefront. And that is what we need more than anything else. Right. And in a sense, I believe that it's not scary, when on the contrary, it's exciting. Because finally, we can look at human potential as real human potential, right? It's about really saying that we don't need to make humans feel that they're not important or that they can only do one level job that we can really elevate and connect at a whole different level. When I was in China for a talk in Shanghai, and in my hotel, I had done I had given my laundry to be done. And I called downstairs in the in the reception and said, Oh, can I have the laundry stand up? And said sure, certainly. A minute later, I got a call or colleague is at the door. Okay, so I opened the door or do I see a little robot it was a machine and looking Like a big trashcan, I guess with a window, it had like a little face bandit. When I said, when I opened the door, it opened that little door, little window and it had my packet and says, you know, your packet has been delivered. And I speak the package, and then the little, like, robust start started going towards the elevator, call the elevator and left with the elevator. And I was like looking at this, and I'm like I am living in the future.
Leighann Lovely 15:31
I think it was, we wouldn't want it, I probably would have followed it and been like, we're just sick go now
Maria Kellis 15:39
be elevated to probably go to his next job. But I definitely took a video of that. But I was so impressed. Someone's asked, because this is a job that somebody will have to have done. Otherwise, like remember the bell boys, right? And wants to give out boy, right? Right.
Leighann Lovely 16:01
Right. And, and we always talk about, well, robots are gonna replace us, but somebody has to calibrate that somebody has to monitor it, somebody has to make actually creating higher paying better jobs for people. So that they have the ability to learn new and better things. Because I mean, the way of the world is just
Leighann Lovely 16:34
it's just simply the way of the world. The more advanced we get, the more you know, the more we here's an example. And I use this example, when I talk all the time. When I first started to read, I'm pretty sure I was, you know, like first grade ish, you know, kindergarten, you start learning to identify your letters, you start to learn to count, and it's about playing and socialization, right. My daughter is five. And she's reading. She's writing. She's using computers in a way that I never, I mean, at will show my age, I didn't have a computer in my home until I was in high school. I mean, we didn't have that technology. But now kids are growing up, where my, when she was two, she could open up my iPhone and take pictures and play games. And I'm like, How did you know how to do that? You know, like, they watch you do something once on technology, and they can repeat it just by seeing. And that just shows the intelligence already in our kids abilities to do things with the use of technology. Now, some would go you know, some would say, Oh, that's so bad. You know, we want our kids to be outside playing the way we did well, the world is constantly evolving. They're not going to go outside and play with sticks the way that we did because, well, they now have so much more to play with. We now we're creating toys that our learning tools, the way that we didn't have we had sticks and Rottweil okay, I'm exaggerating a little bit I had more than stuff to play with. But you get the point. Like,
Maria Kellis 18:27
hey, I played with sticks and rocks because it was fun. I love what I was literally like my favorite game was to go into mud and become like me this poor mom, she had to wash my clothes, but I just like enjoying being in the mud, like the whole space. Right? And I would like make big money and make like little like things with my hands. And I thought it was like the cutest thing in the world. Like, and I thought it was making food right? Because I was watching my mom make foods. I was like, Oh, do you want like some some food that I made? And they were like, oh, laughter that like oh my God, what did she do again. But you know, there's a pleasure in that interaction with the ground, for example, and the earth but there's also fun to to evolve. And I remember toys that we my mom was obsessed with having smart toys for us. She will like track the whole entire. I grew up in Athens, in Greece and sociopaths the entire city to find like the one store that had like educational toys. And as a result, by the way, I went to MIT and my two brothers also went to MIT. So I'm just here to say that educational pillars are very useful. And in a sense, when we those toys are available now to to In case everywhere, when my first job out of MIT, Bernard was working for MIT at the MIT Media Lab as a researcher, and there was a group next to mine, that they were creating music using drawings. So I literally took the notes, and they very literally composed music. So you could draw lines and create operas, and so many a little kid today can open up an application to a few lines and create music without having to learn them instruments, right. So that creates an incredible ability, where we can have new digital learning, and I remember back in the day, like, yo, yo, Ma, was coming to, to the Media Lab to play so they could track his that once the machines learn how to do it, then they could just compose music. Of course, of course, we really smart programmers were behind it. There was an I give them full credit for incredible chars. Yet, what I'm saying is that something that moto was able to play 10 instruments by this time. And so yeah, he became Mozart. But we haven't had composers since then are not incredible composers are well known, because it's not so easy. And who's going to spend that time, right? Whereas today's little kids, if they're musical, and they have the the amazing creativity that they have, they can compose music without having to remember, right?
Leighann Lovely 21:46
Yep. So I'm going to shift us back. So we don't go too far off.
Maria Kellis 21:55
I can talk forever about AI is so fascinating.
Leighann Lovely 21:59
So I've been really excited to talk to you about your teachings and how you use your background and experience to lead businesses. So let's talk a little bit about that. Absolutely.
Maria Kellis 22:11
I believe that I take a very human centric approach. I believe that everything starts with us. And also, I believe in the way, not so much to me. So when we create leaders, so my job is my my focus is on leaders, and leadership. And I work with leaders, but I always say leadership always starts with self leadership. Because if we can lead ourselves, then how will lead an impulse. And it's not about control and manipulation, it's about vision and inspiration. So standing in our power today means very different things than what it meant in the past. We're no longer in the time of the fires when we had slaves, buildings, appointments, machines, were doing that. So now we're at the stage where we can understand leadership at a different level, understanding the nuances. And when I talk about the yin and yang leadership, this is really the pinnacle of my work, I have a method that I use called existe. Maxim's because I always say if you're at your center, just rotate around your center around Praxis as it were. And it it really uses the idea of balance. So the first step is awareness. So we have the awareness of who we are what we're doing and the awareness of the problem. So we go in a very mindful way introspective way really understanding and taking perspective, then the second part is execute for the x axis. And when we are executives or we execute, literally what we do is we take into action and are inspired action is really what drives the results which and then we integrate the two that's the i and b axis by integrating awareness and execution will really create extraordinary success, which is really the essence the axis and this access method may seem simple, but those steps are very vague. And every step is years and years of understanding and training in my life. I personally started with the export, because while I was in technology and also I learned how to do the things using more structure approach the the young approach we wanted call it God. And the rest of my life, especially after the wheelchairs, bashing, understanding life in a much different level was to understand the flow would we call the flow, the amazing ability that we have. This, by the way is incredible and sales as well be in sales, if we understand the flow, we can increase our results. So this is something that I want to say that we as humans have access to something called the flow that is so much better than what we ever had before. And this is really our human potential. So when I work with leaders, even they may be managing a small team. Okay, you may just only be managing yourself that I talk to them about this access method that allows them to have bombers leadership, and create extraordinary results.
Leighann Lovely 26:00
Now, may I ask, because you've brought up the wheelchair? Yes. Now, did you? Was that before? Or after you founded? Inspire Leadership Academy?
Maria Kellis 26:16
That was it. That was 2004?
Leighann Lovely 26:20
Yeah, it was okay. So it was quite a bit before all
Maria Kellis 26:23
it was quite a few years ago, it took me It changed my life. If you speak to people who had very difficult experiences, very often, they will say all best thing that happened my life. And I can tell you the best thing that happened my life, I probably have forgotten the pain and went through that. It was truly something that changed my life changed the course of everything for me, because I had to see the world in a way that I wasn't trained or willing to do before. And I want to say, I am truly grateful that I am now walking not not not to say anything for those people who are still confined in a wheelchair. I mean, I was in a wheelchair for 18 months. So I have a lot of compassion and, and memories of that time. But I do want to say that, to me, it would start with the decision. And it's almost that it was after I had graduated and my base assumption by age two. And I it was the beginning of my career. So I was reading startups, I was reading tech companies. And it was almost like a game, although for me, and I had to be reinvent life based art, everything.
Leighann Lovely 27:48
You know, and a lot of people that I have spoken with a couple on my podcast, have had traumatic events that have changed the trajectory of their life. And having gone through that, they look back on it, and they will say that it was while going through it was, you know, horrible, that it was painful that it was you know, everything that it that it was at face value. But that, you know, when it's all said and done, and they look back on it, that they wouldn't change anything. Because they come out the other side, in a different, you know, like any human would, right? You experience something either traumatic because we have traumatic positive experiences where they are, for all intensive purposes, something that's traumatic, but at the end of it, you go oh my gosh, that was that was quite amazing. While be it traumatic. And you have the traumatic events where it's like, oh, my god, I can't believe I survived it. But you do walk away, altered.
Maria Kellis 29:12
And the pupils, oh, I'm sorry.
Leighann Lovely 29:15
I was just gonna say the people who can walk away and learn something, you know, are are just usually so much more powerful in their own right, because they have the ability to learn something from an event that took place. Because if you if you don't learn anything, then it was all for naught.
Maria Kellis 29:45
I do want to say I'm gonna start by saying that I do work a lot with trauma, and people who carry trauma and I just say that most of us carry some form of trauma. It doesn't have to be as dramatic As I had crazy neuropathic pain, and I was in a little chair, but it can be all, you know, like I was bullied at school or I. So trauma is, unfortunately, a part of every human experience. And I believe that it is God's
Leighann Lovely 30:19
they say changing, you know, changing careers changing a job is a form of trauma. I mean, we have little traumas throughout our life. And then we, you know, unfortunately, some have large traumas.
Maria Kellis 30:34
And I do want to say that I have, because I have been in this field, and because I studied this trauma is an intense event, where we were not able to process the emotion. So there's a difference between drama, and trauma. So an intense event is only becomes traumatic and stays with us and unfortunately, is something that we have to carry until it releases only if we are not able to process our emotions. So I encourage people to always process their emotions in grief, if they have just one of my incredible slides, who's also a rock star, she's amazing. She just had a miscarriage. And we've been taken two months to help her through that pain. And that grades, because most, most women don't talk about miscarriages, let alone go through their grief. And then 20 years later, they find themselves finally addressing the trauma. So I'm like, Well, you know, because of single women 20 years later, how but we let you grieve. And it's been such an incredible growth experience for her. I'm not saying that this is something that she will have chosen. And I'm not saying that this is one. But it was something that could be very traumatic, but because she's passing the grievance taking her time, and we're doing smoothly, she's really able to grow as a human and as a leader in ways that she has never been able to do before. So in a sense, now she's starting to have the gratitude and the appreciation for the event, even though it was extremely difficult to go through. I mean, I don't wish it on anybody, although it is very common. For men, miscarry.
Leighann Lovely 32:34
It is extremely common. But most women don't realize it until they've experienced it themselves. And then have the courage to tell somebody and with me, and it's amazing, because when you acknowledge something that you're experiencing, and people see that you are authentic, and that you are experiencing something, people are more likely. And I've experienced this in my own life, more likely to say, I understand what you're going through. Because it's also happened to me. And then you go what, and you realize, I also experienced a miscarriage. And I was told that I couldn't have a child. And you know, my husband and I were like, oh, okay, we can't have a child. We went, we were considering it, and my audience knows this. We were considering adoption. But when you, you know, in my, my employer knew I was pregnant. And then so when I wasn't it was kind of all of a sudden, like, oh, it's not I can't keep it a secret. They're gonna figure it out. Right? Yes. And it was it was amazing. The amount of women that I was working with at that time, that called me and said, I know what you're going through. And I'm like, well, and you think, right, you kind of do but and they're like, no, no, you don't understand. I know what you're going through. And I went, Oh, and then you have that outpour of people who have gone through it and you go, wow, this is way more common than is ever, ever talked about because it's not a conversation that comes up unless you know somebody who's going through it.
Maria Kellis 34:38
Absolutely. And it's also something that is almost like a stigma when it shouldn't be risks. Okay, but but we were talking about trauma and trauma. So, yes, it is very dramatic and very difficult to go through this experience. And so So for my client, I said, Well, let's not let would be a trauma for you. Right? So when, when they first when they first went to the doctor, and the doctor said, oh, there's a problem, you need to have an abortion. And I was like, okay, is this really what you want? And she said, No. And I said, Okay, how about you love your baby? And then let it have its course, let it be natural. And, and she did. So for three weeks, we were not sure what it was going to happen. And for three weeks, she learned to love her baby, even it. It's funny, because it's her learning experience was about learning how not to be perfect. And I said, Okay, so your baby's not perfect. Can you love it anyway? And she said, Absolutely, I can do. And she had the most loving experience. And this allowed her to go through some serious trauma that she had from her childhood that she never addressed before. And she's becoming a better leader, a stronger leader. And her company, by the ways, was doing amazing. She's like, I don't know, how's it I keep having sales? I'm like, okay, Tori. You in a sense, it's almost like, she didn't even have to work like, she has her own company. So clients will just come to her while she was going through one of the most difficult experiences of her life. And she was. And that realization that is that it's okay to take the time we need to grease to take the time to process our emotions to take the time we need to heal is extremely important. I find that sometimes we forget that we're human, and that we have emotions. And it's almost like a badge of honor. Oh, when I was in school, it was a badge of honor not to sleep to pull an all nighter was cool. To to work overtime to not to work weekends. But why would I need to do that. So it's almost like today, I see those things that was considered amazing. I'm like, well, that's a very efficient way. I realized, and I pushed myself so much sometimes I think that the reason I ended up in their wheelchairs because I had my body just shut down from being abused for so long. And I remember there was one week where I had never realized this. But there was one week it was finals, I had final projects and I managed to stay awake for an entire week. I think I passed out before hours, but the entire week that it was and I saw my intelligence and productivity go down. For the first time I saw what this means to humans, we don't often we stop functioning, right. So now I honor my sleep, I want to sleep I am so excited and I let myself sleep and I wake up with a fresh mind. I used to be able to oil call the night out. I will work like throughout the night. And now I'm like, I wake up at three o'clock is on time or four in the morning and I work that's after a good night's rest. And my mind is fresh. So I find that this is something that we cannot ignore that our physical needs are and it's okay to take care of ourselves. It's okay to give ourselves permission to be human. So when I talk about this access method, a for awareness stands for being human This is our humanity that gets to be stressed.
Leighann Lovely 38:48
That's That's amazing. And I I talk about this a lot for about you know, I'm a first year entrepreneur, you know being the workaholic that you know I shouldn't be because I talk about you know we need we need to have our rest we need to take care of us wellness wise we need to end it and you're right it for so many it's a badge of honor. Still and there has been a huge shift of people going yeah, no five o'clock I'm done. Don't expect me to answer the phone. And that is rule with you know, my family, no phones at the dinner table all of that stuff because you are completely and totally correct. We should not live to work we should work to live. Hands down. The most important thing because if we are only living to work then what is what is the point and I remember hearing a speaker talking about To, you know, finding the purpose. And if your purpose is not with your family or with your health or with whatever that is that's personal. Then what is what is the point?
Maria Kellis 40:17
Is it okay to take one step further, and I believe that we're here to create, I believe that we're here to produce extraordinary effects. What I'm saying is that this balance is not about doing less is about doing more with less time. The one constraint that we have is time. So when I'm exhausted, and I can't function, and I have no idea, like I'm sitting there, and yeah, maybe physically, I'm present, but I'm not present. So if I'm well rested, and my mind is sharp, and can do things really. I remember it was one day, I had this very difficult problem I can solve and I have a commitment to exercise. So I went swimming. Well, guess what, it has such incredible ideas while I was streaming, I came back and I was like, Okay, I solved the problem. And a friend of mine was like, Maria, yes, of course you did. Because what is such a nice element to be in, and I was like, I should do more of my thinking in water. And, and that was because I had the commitment that I'm not going to miss exercise, even though I have something that I didn't finish, because I value my exercise very much. And, in a sense, self care has become something that I do. So when I, I don't always cook, but when I, when I eat, I always eat healthy, I may order in, I may eat a certain bar, but I know that whatever I put in my body is going to determine my statements. And so I no longer think of this, I don't want to take my body for granted. And I no longer take my life for granted. What you're talking about our families, our families, we are social animals, we are our happiness is very much a function of the happiness in our time. And so having a well balanced family with beautiful ways of communicating is, in fact, nurturing us and making us become more productive. One of the problems that companies face, especially in the tech sector is innovation and creativity. And they're like, Oh, well, how do we induce that? The humans do that. Which you do is you nurture the human so they can be creative? Innovation is I always studied geniuses, and how, how do we get those genius models to those moments, they're not ordinary, but they're extraordinary. And those happen, by allowing ourselves to be in this creative state of flow. And that happens when we have less constraints, constraints, when we allow ourselves to be more free. And yes, I always describe the yin and the yang as the, the river of life. So the young being the riverbed, so the container, and the yin and the water. And both of them are required to not have the flavor. If you don't have a bunch of water, it's not going to go into line unless you have a river that maybe at best will become a lake or we'll just get reabsorbed in the in beta. Even when we sold, I think you were talking about purpose, our purpose is to choose the direction where our rivers can flow. And when we do that, we're streamlining or our resources, through systems and processes into that action. And that's what creates our life, our direction, where we're going. Absolutely.
Leighann Lovely 44:11
And we are coming to time, I wish that we had more time to have this. This has been an amazing conversation. But the question of the season, what do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Maria Kellis 44:29
So many things, definitely a chatroom. The taste as I said changed my life so I'm gonna put it up there. And I believe that charge a bit fee members because of what Elon Musk said, but but because it has come to the forefront. It is something that will finally discuss AI. And some people are scared. The Badgers Guild of America is on strike for months because of it. And some people are realizing Wow Like me super happy because suddenly, I don't have to worry so much about the slide about how to write simple things. And so I'm gonna say the first one is going to be the, the rise of AI. In the last three years, I think we can still include COVID, because it was the first time that we had a global response to pandemic. And it was scary. And he was extremely controlling. This whole idea of isolation, forcing people to stay in their houses, was very difficult because our freedom was attacked in a way, yet, what I'm going to say is that someday we saw the advent of working from home, we realized that people at home in fact, are producing better. And we are letting people stay more at home where they can have their home life. So our, our home life balance is become more important. I mean, yes, some people are asking for employees to go back to work to the office, but it's not really happening, people are quitting rather than going back to the office. And this has really changed the way we do business. Because we realize it's not about having somebody in a seat. Being there clocking hours is not the point. The point is, can you do the job, and people in fact, have a better job than they have to deliver results, as opposed to clocking out? And so am I working from home, and we'll get there. The difference in travel, we, I used to travel so much. And with with a I will change a lot of how we with aim sorry, with COVID, we changed a lot how we travel. And we it's almost like we went backwards, but also in a more quality way. So for the first time, in many years, I was reminded that there's borders, that there's countries that I had forgotten that I will just hop on a plane and go to three countries in the day that I was totally fine with. And this I mean, there was one one week where I went through 10 countries. So I remember it was like in Thailand I wanted to make I went to the United States, I went to Belgium's Gliese Cyprus, I don't remember that. But it was just like, one week. And I now see the borders again. And in a sense, it's, it's good and bad. The good thing is that I'm seeing the difference. But I'm also seeing that people are coming together in a way to bridge through cultural gaps that I had never seen before. We're all doing everything online. And yeah, it looks a little bit different in every country. But you know, every country has now gotten through this. And in Thailand, for example, it was always hard to buy things online, online, let alone European things. And then I believe that travel has changed. And we have changed as we are. So we are almost creating homes that we have forgotten. Like, I know so many people whose home had to be the car, because they will sleep in their car, they will eat in their car, they was changing the car. And in a sense, we're reclaiming our homes. And I feel that that's a shift as well.
Leighann Lovely 49:03
If somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Maria Kellis 49:08
Absolutely, the easiest way is to go through my website, Mariakellis.com. That's M A R I A. And Kelllis with Double L so K E, double L L I S Maria Keller's dot com. And they can actually pick up the book the ebook goes describing the AI and the Xeon. So this idea that this balance idea that they can find there and they can also reach out to the team and say happy to accommodate I am always excited to talk to people who have listened to me to answer questions of talk to them about how this can help them in their lives so they can absolutely book a time to talk with.
Leighann Lovely 49:52
Excellent thank you so much, Maria for this conversation today. It's been absolutely amazing. Thank you again for Turning to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible so don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us, like us or share us have a wonderful day
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPY
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, work, human, life, maria, ai, changed, talk, trauma, wheelchair, job, amazing, realized, incredible, hr, call, grammarly, toys, pain, mit
Wednesday Nov 08, 2023
Wednesday Nov 08, 2023
Join me for and amazing conversation with William Vanderbloemen We discuss the importance of being able to articulate yourself during an interview. It's not about just saying what you think the interviewer wants to hear; it's about being genuine and demonstrating how your unique experiences and qualities align with the position and company culture. Having a level of self-awareness can set you apart from other candidates and help you make a meaningful connection with the interviewer.
Contact – William
Website - https://www.vanderbloemen.com/
Amazon – Be The Unicorn – By Wiliam Vanderbloemen
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely.
Leighann Lovely 01:07
Let's get this conversation started. I'm very excited to speak with William Vanderbloemen, CEO and founder of Vanderbloemen search group, a top executive search firm. In his upcoming book be the unicorn 12 data driven habits that separate the best leaders from the rest. William reveals how job seekers, employees, hiring managers and company leaders everywhere can stand out from their peers and become irreplaceable. Building the careers they've always wanted. William, thank you for joining me. I am very excited to have you here today.
William Vanderbloemen 01:48
Leighann it's, it's it's a fun thing to get to be with you. I appreciate you taking time and go packers. Yeah,
Leighann Lovely 01:56
Go Packers. So William, why don't you start off by telling me a little bit about yourself.
William Vanderbloemen 02:02
Oh, this sounds like a job interview, Leighann
Leighann Lovely 02:06
I know, I know people are I actually had one of my guests say you can't ask me that question. And I'm like, well, then how do I start? Like, do I introduce you, do you? And I'm like, Fine. I won't. We'll we'll just jump into the first question. But I'm sorry, you gotta answer. Let
William Vanderbloemen 02:22
Let me give you let me give you the Podcast Answer. And then if you want, I can give you the oh, if I get asked that in a job interview. Here's how i How's that? Yep. Okay. So I have the privilege of serving a company that I started. We're an executive search firm, we help teams that are values driven, find their top talent. So it started as an idea of helping churches find their pastor, I think you're in Milwaukee. So like, Elmbrook Church, which would be a church that is fairly well known in town, that'd be but then also grew to schools. What's the charter school, they're in Milwaukee. That's so good. St. Augustine Academy, okay, we so we help them. And that's, you know, not necessarily faith based, but it's values driven nonprofits that are trying to find their C suite. And then to some extent, I don't know how to say this. But like, the Chick fil A is of the world, the companies that are small businesses, large businesses that are family run, and they have a very particular set of values that drive that family. And they want a search firm that's going to hire based on value and cultural fit as much as competency. Does that make sense?
Leighann Lovely 03:34
Yes and finding cultural fit, you know, saying it like, and again, I work in this space, saying, hey, I really like to find somebody who's a cultural fit. It's one thing to say it, it's another thing to do it correct. Because to try to explain, Well, what is your culture, you can't just sit and have a conversation and be like, Oh, here's what my culture is. You have to actually dig in and get to know the people to figure it out
William Vanderbloemen 04:02
And it's an archeological dig, not a correct backhoe, done in 30 minutes kind of thing. It's slow study of the organization. I tell people when we do a search, it's kind of like an organ transplant, you're hiring us to go find someone outside your body and bring them in and run a major system of the body. Right? And so we live right by that Medical Center here in Houston. We have a ton of Doc's in our neighborhood, and I was talking to transplant dog and I said, What's the difference between the good transplant doc and the best? And he said, that's easy. The, you know, donor lists are a big part of the equation, who can we go find that has a kidney or he said, you know, but honestly, that's not as hard as it used to be. What separates the best transplant dogs from the rest is their ability to do a tissue match? Oh, and I thought about what I do. And he said, Well, I said and he said, Well, you can take a hell If the heart and put it in a healthy body, and if the tissues don't match, it's a bad ending for everyone. And I just thought about HR and staff and like, adding to the team. So we really focus on the tissue match, which requires a deep study of each as if it's the only client we've ever had. So that's,
Leighann Lovely 05:18
that's a really great analogy, because I mean, you're right. And if that tissue doesn't match, eventually everything around the heart is going to Yeah, it's gonna die. It's and you
William Vanderbloemen 05:29
know, the whole search world, people don't want to have to pay to help find stuff. I think they feel like there. Am I the admitting some level of incompetence, by hiring someone to help me find this person? And it's just like, you know, man, it's all right. And then if they say, well, I'll get some help that it's like, I don't want to spend a ton of it. And I've kind of gotten to the place Leann where I look at people and say, if you needed a kidney transplant, would you Google discount transplant doctors? Right.
Leighann Lovely 06:01
But here's, here's something that I grew up in a in a sales, or, you know, sales, entrepreneur, spirited type family, and I grew up with the understanding that if you are not the expert at what you're doing, then go hire the expert at what you're doing, because it makes you that much smarter. I'm not, I'm not the smartest person in the room. But here's where I stand out, among other people, I am smart enough to know it. I don't know how to do accounting, I run my own business. Okay? Do I want to do my own books and screw up and in the end, have to pay the government that much more money? Or do I want to admit that I am not smart enough to do it, and then go hire the person that is smart enough so that at the end of the day, I don't end up having to pay 50? Grand to the government because I screwed up my books.
William Vanderbloemen 06:52
That's this is so we have more in common than I realized, tell me about yourself actually starts with I will, I'll keep it short. I am a recovering preacher. So I go on and on and on. But a lifetime ago, I was a pastor, it senior pastor, lead pastor, the head guy, whatever you want to call it at all, mostly large churches. The last church I served was First Presbyterian, Houston, which is where Sam Houston went to church. So like it's fairly established and ensconced, great place, they shouldn't have a hard time hiring. They took three years to find me, I stayed six years, it took almost three years to find the next guy. And I went from there to we don't have time for all the details. But I went from there into the corporate world, worked for a fortune 200 size company oil and gas here in Houston, the CEO had been there nine and a half years, which is a lifetime for a company that size, and said time to find my successor and they hired this thing called a search firm. Never heard of such thing. I just, you know, Wake Forest, undergrad, Princeton seminary, straight into church. And 90 days after they started, they had a new CEO. And I'm like, wow, you know, first person in Houston, they get 12 years, half the time they're in for somebody half the time. They're not mean oil and gas company like the Deathstar of the universe right now. And 90 days, they've got their person. So I set out to try. It's funny, I came home, Adrienne, and I just gotten married, we blended our families, six kids just bought a house and I said, Baby, I think I think I'm supposed to quit my job and start something new for churches. And she just looked at me totally deadpan and said, That's because churches love new ideas, right? Said no one ever. You know, she, she should have said I love you go back to work. We have mouths to feed and she didn't. So honestly, she gets credit for starting the company. Oh, and LeighAnn it was the fall of 2008, which was a brilliant time to quit your job. So oh my gosh, but it's been a fun ride. 15 years later, we've kind of it's branched out from just helping churches to although we do the church and the pastor thing a lot more than anybody in the world because we weren't the first do it. But it's branched out beyond that. We've gotten to meet a lot of great small business owners gotten to help a lot of companies, right.
Leighann Lovely 09:18
It's the idea that you started and in churches, which and I in my career have helped. I've gone into churches and helped implement processes and they're slow to move on anything. I mean, it is it is
William Vanderbloemen 09:35
there are glaciers that move faster. So
Leighann Lovely 09:39
the idea that you started there, my my goodness gracious it That is That is crazy.
William Vanderbloemen 09:48
I didn't bring that up to tell funny stories much to say. If you look back on my wall you'll see an undergraduate degree with religion and philosophy Exactly business. You know, you know what people with a philosophy major do with their career? They spend the day saying, Would you like fries with that? Like, that's my business training and then a seminary degree from Princeton like, so I've had to learn it as I go and hire accountants, so we don't pay extra money and just hiring experts around me. So sorry for the long story. No,
Leighann Lovely 10:22
but I love it. I absolutely love it. Because I don't I don't know that there is anybody who is wildly successful that had a straight path. No. And people, you know, there's so many people who will look at you and go, Well, I can't, you know, he's, he's so brilliant and so successful. I don't want to approach him and, and, you know, sound stupid? Well, wait a second, let's back up. That is the person that you should approach and and talk to, because if you're open and willing to accept some of that knowledge, well, and obviously the person you approach has to be willing to, you know, to be open. But for the most part, the people I talked to are so open to saying, yeah, let me tell you my story. Let me tell, you know, tell you a little bit about what I went through. And then it may it humanizes. First of all, let's talk HR humanizing. It humanizes those people. And it allows other people to realize, wow, I can do brilliant things. If only I start asking the questions, and I allow myself to be open to new ideas. I mean, I never, I never would have, I never would have started with trying to help churches. Because no one. But that's the
William Vanderbloemen 11:39
very hardest group to a tough to do it. You
Leighann Lovely 11:43
knew them, you understood them and you understood their their inner workings because well
William Vanderbloemen 11:48
in for me, for me, just to be clearly and and not to sound, you know, melodrama. This was not about what's the best business sector to start in. This was about a cause that I deeply care about being so sadly inefficient at their HR, that I'm like, I don't care if it's me chasing windmills with Don Quixote. I'll try. Right? Well, and that really ended up at a business decision,
Leighann Lovely 12:11
it was your passion, it was a passion project that has now turned into a successful business where you can still keep your passion, you know, close to your heart. That's right. And if we could all if we could all do something that we're passionate about and enjoy doing, and being able to still help that, you know, we would, we would find our success, right? Because
William Vanderbloemen 12:32
we have seven kids. And so we're the career we're in the career advice stage, we get some out of college, something and they all come to me and say, you know, what do you think we should do with our career? This is what you do all day, what you know, give me some advice. And I think they all think I want to, I'm gonna say well come work at the company, the family business, and I haven't said that yet. But what I have said is, listen, it doesn't matter, Lincoln Do two sets of questions to ask, as you're looking for your career. The first set is, you know, what kind of job? Do I want, you find something the world needs, okay. And that's a little trickier right now, because AI is going to change what the world needs from humans. So think about that. Is this something the world needs? And is going to need for a while? Is this something I'm good at? Is this something that I can actually feed my family with? Like, there are a lot of people who take on passion projects, and then realize they're bankrupt? Right? And is this something that makes my heart go? Yes. And then finally, is it something that leaves the world better than you found it, you do those five things, you'll have more job satisfaction than probably 90% of the population, right. And the second thing is, once you find the job, if you do what you say you're going to do, when you say you're going to do it, at the costs that you promised, you'll be in the top 5% of whatever you go into. Find
Leighann Lovely 13:53
something that you are extremely passionate about and love to do that are helping others and you'll never work a day in your life. And SAS is not measured by the amount of money that you make, but rather the I mean, not to say that you can't work for free, you still need to be able to put food on the table, but it's measured by you know, what you choose, you want to have out of that at the end of the day, and it's different for everybody and that's absolutely beautiful. So, so now you you, you have been able to gather invaluable insight, you know, over the years through the research, the interview process that that you go through in you know, in helping people find these jobs, helping these companies find these people so you've you know, really have kind of, you know, a process down and I asked you, you tell me about yourself and you laughed Is this an interview tell me you know, how you help your clients, the candidates navigate the hole, finding jobs finding people and what is the magic sauce what is the because every But he dreads that. Yeah. Candidates sit down and tell me about yourself. Right? Yeah,
William Vanderbloemen 15:04
I so I think whether you're hiring or interviewing, the cardinal rule is long hellos, short goodbyes, you can say a little more bluntly, hire slowly fire quickly, right. But long hollows and short goodbyes take your time, make sure it's right. If you're miserable in your job, it's not going to help you, it's not going to help the company and then you're going to be job hopping on your resume. And that is not insurmountable, but it's, it's not desirable. Right. So, to me, you know, hiring and interviewing, both sides of that equation are oftentimes like, like bad High School dating from back. I mean, I'm, I'm 53. So I'm ancient, but like, back when we were in school, when we walked up hill to school in the snow both ways. You know, dating was, um, you never saw the real person, right? Like, you know, if it was me, waxing my car to some ridiculous shine, it never has, I'm lifting weights 10 minutes before I pick her up. So I look a little bigger than I am. And, you know, she spent the day getting ready at a level that would never happen, probably wearing something she doesn't want to wear. And, you know, it's just that's the way interviewing feels like to me, and maybe that's not the way everybody understands it. But there's a there's a story not to get all biblical, but there's a great story in the Hebrew Scriptures. Jacob is getting married, and and he wants to marry Rachel, the love of his life. And he's worked seven years to get the Father's blessing. And the father is a bit of a trickster. And so it goes down the aisle and does the ceremony. But But in that day, the wedding was really when the consummation happened. And the father swapped out Rachel for Leah, the younger sister, and it just says, and so they got married, and then Jacob woke up, and it was Leah. And so like, that's what interviewing feels like. It's like, I thought I walked down the aisle with one person, then in the morning, right? So how do you make it work? What's the genius if you can find a way to get honest answers from candidates about themselves and honest answers from employers about themselves? And that's kind of honestly, it's a lot of what we do is sort of provide this Switzerland, where each side can ask the awkward question, and we can say, here's the what's what and find that tissue match so that everybody walks away going, this works well. And off we go.
Leighann Lovely 17:43
And do you feel that? It's, I mean, you're you're almost the mediator, right? That's right. So do you you think that because you have that you're the the mediator or the buffer in between? Because, you know, again, I could put two people in a room and be like, okay, guys be be honest with each other. Let's know. Exactly.
William Vanderbloemen 18:04
And they're nervous. That's the main thing is not they're deceptive. It's nervous. When you're hiring, you're adding an unknown into your staff culture, right? You're so and like, and people, like, I don't know how many primal fears we have. But we're afraid of the unknown, right? Like, I still got a teenager that prefers a nightlight, you know, so we don't like the unknown. And that's why I see so many people. Well, I'm gonna hire this guy, because Leanne told me, he was great. Well, that's pretty thorough. What happened? I mean, I lovely and but like, what happened was, I'm afraid the unknown now I feel like I know something because me and told me about a note. So I'm gonna go with the known or I'm gonna go with the internal heart. Or if you're a small business owner, well, let's say, let's say this way, if you have a friend who owns a small business, have you ever seen a friend with their small businesses, hand the keys to one of their kids that's not qualified. Hmm. And sometimes it's out of pride or a blind spot, but sometimes it's because I know my kid. I don't know what's unknown.
Leighann Lovely 19:07
Right? Right. No, absolutely. You see that all the time, where you've got a family member of some kind in the business that shouldn't be in the business. But the alternative is what I'm going to turn over my business to somebody who I don't know it all. But the person who is running the business is making mistakes, and because they're just not qualified. You're right. We are all afraid of the unknown. It's that you know, walking in the dark, walking in the dark when it's, you know, really dark and in my neighborhood, I don't have a whole ton of streetlights and you always get the pricks in the back of your neck when you can hear something above you or in front of you. And you're like, what is that? Like? Is there something up? Is there something in front of me? You know, I'm a 42 year old woman that really is not scared of anything, but you still have that, that you know, the goose ball seems that you're like, Ooh, yes, I don't know. And especially when it's your own business, or it's something that you're extremely passionate about. So how do you help? I mean, are you are you putting two people in a room? How do you help with that interview? Oh, yeah.
William Vanderbloemen 20:17
So So I think we and the image that I'm currently most drawn to, for us, I love the transplant surgeon thing. But but the reality is, we're not the only ones guiding the hiring process. And we're certainly not telling you who to hire. It's more like, you know, when we when we have a new client, will this never used this will take a survey, what are you expecting out of this? Right? And then after the search, we do another survey, say, what was the highest value? It's interesting. What are you expecting? This always leads to? The lead answer is always you're going to introduce me to people that wouldn't otherwise know. Well, that's very, that's flattering, because everyone knows everyone. It's called LinkedIn. But, you know, on the backside, well, what was the biggest value you got out of this? And the answer is almost always it was the process. You guided us through things, you mediated things. So I'm seeing us now as more of a Sherpa. You know, like, this is your mountain to climb. You're the one that's going to summit Everest. I'm the little guy that's gone up and down the hill a bunch of times, and I can help you see where to step and not step. So it's not just putting two people in a room. It's it's sourcing down to a shortlist, and then from the shortlist, helping them figure out which one on the shortlist is. Right, right.
Leighann Lovely 21:34
So let's talk about how you assist the candidates with you know, some of the questions. How do you how you know, they, I'm a candidate. So, William, I'm coming to you asking your advice, William, you know, I can't stand when somebody, you know, asks me to tell me what my greatest weakness is? You don't like that question. I actually, I love every interview question because I'm a geek. And I just I'm, I'm also excute streamwerks, the right answer
William Vanderbloemen 22:05
to that question again, what's the right answer to what's my great I mean, it's not, I never asked for a raise, I work too many hours, these are my weaknesses.
Leighann Lovely 22:12
For me, my greatest weakness is also my greatest strength. I have had employers, I also, however, improbably not employable at this point, because I've owned my own business. And I've gotten a taste of that. And I probably would be the worst employee ever to sue. And I have known this actually, way before I own my own business, I knew that I was a very hard person to manage. And I have told my managers like, I'm not the easiest person to manage, because I get wild ideas in my head. And I think that I know, like, how to do my, you know, my job, and I'm going to come to you at times, and you're going to have to look me square in the face and say, no, and no means no. But my greatest strength is also my greatest weakness. Might, I think?
William Vanderbloemen 23:03
Yep. It Yeah, it's true of everybody. Your greatest strength unguarded is your shadow side? And that's a great way to answer that question. You know, we've done so when we do a search, we'll have you hire me to find your CEO of your whatever the thing is, and we'll have maybe 1000 people that are on radar, and then you get serious about it, like, where is it located? I mean, you rule out all the Bears fans, if I'm hiring for you, like they can't come work for you. No padding? No, it's all. So you whittle it down. And maybe you got 150 people you're really dealing with and you do your initial phone screens and all that. And you whittle down to a zoom interview and a second zoom interview, you get down to the very last the the face to face interview with people that are getting to maybe make the shortlist. That's a long format interview. And we've now done 30,000 of those and tracked all the data, like, where do they end up how they do what they say to these questions. And it's not a totally scripted interview, but it's a fairly similar format, so we can see some patterns. And in the telling me about yourself sort of thing. If you're interviewing right now, or what's your greatest weakness? Like, do you mind if I just give you like a quick here's what the best of the best have done? Yeah, please. Yeah. So so the very, in fact, we did a study in 2020. If you remember, we had a pandemic sin. Oh,
Leighann Lovely 24:30
yeah, that weird, that weird thing that happened during that time in the world shutdown?
William Vanderbloemen 24:34
Yeah, where every one of my clients closed indefinitely. churches, schools, I mean, business lesson, if all of your clients is closed indefinitely, it will affect your p&l.
Leighann Lovely 24:47
So it really does.
William Vanderbloemen 24:50
Things they teach you with a religion and philosophy degree. So we did a study. We had extra time in it. That's a whole nother podcast, but we asked the question, so we got 30,000 somebody's face to face. Could we identify who the best of those 30,000 are? Based on job placement, retention, success at work? And we did. And then we said, well, do they have anything in common? And they do. And we would never have time to do all this research without the pandemic, because we're growing and you know, going too fast. And so it's led to some really interesting insights about what really are the best habits of the best of the best candidates? And what are the best answers and one of those habits that I think works with the tell me about yourself, and what's your greatest weakness? We distilled it to 12 habits of the best of the best. And one of them is self awareness. We said What does that mean? Well, so Leanne's got this rockin and rollin company that's growing super fast. And I'm interviewing with her. And Leanne says, Tell me about yourself. So well, I won't bore you with all the details, my wife would get seven kids. But what what I want you to hear is I'm really interested in this interview. And I don't know where it'll go. But I'm really energized. Let me tell you why. What you need matches a whole lot of who I am. Now, what does that mean? Well, you're growing like a hockey stick. You know, it's, I can see that. So I'm guessing that every single job description in your company Leann has a little thing at the bottom that says, and other duties as necessary. Right. And it's probably got another bullet point, this is ability to learn on the job. Well, let me tell you, my last company, I started with a startup, they had no idea what to do with their mail list. They didn't even have an email distribution list thing. I got a philosophy degree. So I had to go figure that out. I got on constant contact until we could figure it out. Like HubSpot, it's the best thing to do for content based marketing, we started a blog, we upped our traffic, we grew our, our website, we grew our contact list by 3,000% in the first two years, and in the middle of all that, I also had to learn how to do a commercial real estate lease, which I've never done. But it was just a lot of fun. I really thrived in that. I had a job in high school, where it was house painting, and it was the same motion on the same job all day long. And the guy next to me, loved it. He was wired for it. I did not love it, I was ready to quit. I am not that guy. If you want me to come in and do like being counting, if you're gonna fire me, I'm not good. If if you want me to come in and say we were you know what we're jumping out of the plane. And we're going to build a parachute on the way down. I'm in my zone. And that's why I'm excited about this interview. And I'm excited to see where it goes. So you see what happens is their self awareness, right. And I backed it up with, look how that self awareness is proved out by what I've done in my previous jobs. And that self awareness is also tied to that's why I'm interested in your job. Now this won't work. If you don't do the homework and only intermarry jobs, or shin. But then you've also kind of headed off with the past. Tell me about your greatest weakness, because you've already said, you know, there are fabulous people in the world that are compliance officers, I would get fired from that in about three days, you know, so, does it make sense? Probably more than you wanted to hear?
Leighann Lovely 28:15
No, no, it absolutely makes sense. And when people are self aware, you're right. Absolutely. Right. Because and I'm trying to think of the proper way. When when people are self aware, they're able to adjust and, you know, be able to take on those difficult and again, I'm not picking on the the person who loves the painting job that's repetitive. That's that's the same thing. But the more self aware you are, the more you're able to shift and move and adjust to different situations, which makes sense why those would be the highest ranked with interview candidates. And when we talk about that, in emotional intelligence, we talk about that in self awareness. It will emotional intelligence very much is together with self awareness. So it makes sense why those would be the traits when
William Vanderbloemen 29:06
I was younger. You know, I came to First Presbyterian, Houston, I was head of this church with about 5000 adults couple 1000 kids at school. I've never been a member of a large church. I don't know what they were thinking they should have hired a search firm to help them but there wasn't one back then. So I go their way in over my head, but because I was 31 I knew everything. So you know, classic mistake, I did not have self awareness. And I just hired people exactly like me because I like me. You know, I think as I've grown in self awareness, it's given me the capacity to appreciate people that are not like me, that can complement the team in a way that we would never have been able to do research on 30,000 interviews if it was just people like me, because we would have thrown the interview notes away or they'd have been on the back of a paper bag or no, I've got all All these people on our team that are completely OCD with our data. I mean, like, honestly, they probably get mad when I say that because they're like, No, we're C, D, oh, that's alphabetical. So
Leighann Lovely 30:17
Right. And, again, you're talking about, you know, hiring people who are great at doing something that you are not are not not good at, right. And, and require self awareness. And that requires self awareness. And, you know, I tell, I'll tell people, like, stay in your lane, do find your superpower. And then stay in your lane. If you need to veer for a second, you know, occasionally I need to update my my accounting books so that my accountant can take care of it. But everybody has a superpower. And it may, it may not be self awareness, it may be painting the walls. If that's your superpower, you're happy with that, then go do that, then go be happy in with your superpower. And that absolutely. I you know, and I've talked to them numerous times about every single human and every single job needs to be recognized for the great job that they do in the job that they do.
William Vanderbloemen 31:16
So good. It was so good. It doesn't matter what we
Leighann Lovely 31:21
But take pride in what you do. Love what you do, and you'll be happy every day of your life.
William Vanderbloemen 31:29
That's good. But I
Leighann Lovely 31:31
preach about this too. If you're not happy in what you do, then go I mean, the world since the pandemic, it has drastically changed. There are hundreds of 1000s of jobs open all over the place. Even when we're hearing about mass layoffs. There are still hundreds of 1000s of jobs all over the place. That's exactly right. So yeah, now, I wanted to bring this one up, bringing up salary. Now, for me, I've never had a problem with again, I am a wildly extroverted person. I don't I don't know, William, I don't think I brought this up to you. I have bipolar disorder, years and years of being stable. That is part of my superpower. I don't think of it. I don't consider it to be a disability or a hinderance anymore, because I've been stable for as long as I have. It's part of my superpower, it makes me as much of an extrovert I've I have owned that I have. I talk about it a lot. It is part of who I am proud of who I am, I go out and I talk to people about you know that I'm a huge supporter of mental health. So I've never had a problem with being a chatty Cathy, right? It's just part of my, my personality. So when it comes to, you know, going into an interview, I've never had a problem with just being myself being completely comfortable with myself. But there are those who, and I experienced this to where I'll talk to the the company that interviewed a candidate, and they'll say, This person was just really closed off. I'm like, really? What, what do you I didn't get that. But you and I are very comfortable talking with people. And I have a tendency to be able to break down those walls with people very quickly. When they go into a structured interview, those individuals all of the sudden get real Oh, God, I don't know what to say. I don't know how to say it. So there's those questions like, when do I bring up salary? How do I bring up and discuss what my salary expectations are? At what point? Do you recommend that those discussions come up?
William Vanderbloemen 33:45
Well, with with, with all 12 of the habits we found in what we call the unicorns, you know, the in all 12 of them, developing skills around them has not ever been easier, because the Internet helps so much. So with salary, the help it is you should have an idea what the ballpark of the salary is, before you ever walk in there. And if you don't, I don't know what kind of job you're interviewing for. But, man, you gotta have a little bit of anticipation of the interview. You know, whether you go on Google reviews, you go on Glassdoor, I think 18 states now require that some salary range be posted. Now, if they're posting accurately, that's different, but there are ways to get an idea of both what the company is paying and what the market demands. Right? So you shouldn't walk in there ignorant. It's a lot different than 3040 50 years ago, frankly, where companies could take advantage of women and say this is what salary is when if it were man, it'd be totally different. You know, thankfully, those things have changed some, but I'm kind of an old curmudgeon here, really, and I think I see More people make the mistake of bringing up salary too soon than waiting too long, especially given that you should have some information going in. Now, if you've got, I mean, I've got seven kids, I that's a lot of people to feed. So I got, I'm the first to say you need to know what you're getting into. And don't come home with a job that won't feed anybody. But you should be able to figure most of it out. And one other place, I'll just go ahead and be curmudgeon, and I would say the earlier you are in your career, the longer you can wait to bring up salary, okay. And the earlier you wait, and you're the earlier you are on your career, the less you should counter the offer. If you're early in your career, and you find a job you're excited about, and they offer you a salary, and it's within what the market bears or what you know, you figure to be. I have seen a trend in in my own kids and in millennials, we as the backbone of our offices, millennials love them to death. I'm very bullish on the generation in general. But I will say you guys need to quit countering for no reason other than countering if it comes off as arrogant and entitled, it comes off as you're so lucky to interview me. And I don't even want to talk to you. We we have walked away from people that do the whole counter game just because that's like, to me call me old school curmudgeon, but on a job right out of college, that is just not the right posture to have. So that's now you can cancel me and not ever invited me back to the podcast that was
Leighann Lovely 36:28
so well sad. Because I, again, I'm always for people. I'm countering for their worth. If I have a company who comes in and offers them something that I don't feel they're, they're worth it, you know, is low balling them just for the sake of trying to get them at a really low rate. And I'm like, I am 100% in their corner of yes, let's let's go back and ask for that additional 5k. Or let's see if they'll do a sign on bonus, or whatever it might be. But, but for the millennials who are for the younger generation, when they come in, and they're like, oh, yeah, I'm making this much. And just recently, all of the sudden, they're like, Well, I want 10,000 more than what I'm making. I'll go. What's why? Why, like, seriously, why? What, what, what makes you think that
William Vanderbloemen 37:23
because it's in vogue? You're not? You're not telling your truth? If you don't, right, which, like, Guys, come on, don't blow the job, right or something doesn't matter, right.
Leighann Lovely 37:39
And it insults on, there's that. And I've had it both ways where I've had an employer insult a candidate, and I've had candidates insult employers, by going and you as much as you tried to do the mediation of I can't go back to the employer and ask them for that. Or I can't go to the employee and offer them that they're going to be insulted by you. And they're like, well just do it. Okay, well, as the mediator. I cannot, as the representative to both parties, I have to do what's being asked. And it's embarrassing sometimes that I've had embarrassing moments where I'm like, Oh, I got to offer this to you. I've also had it i Sorry, I've also had it where I've had a candidate accepted job. And then and negotiation negotiation, the company finally went, Yes, we'll offer that accept it. And the day later come back and go, Oh, I'm sorry. But I think that, you know, I going to ask for this much more. And I went, I'm sorry, but negotiations are closed. And I literally said, I am withdrawing you from this opportunity at this point. Because negotiations closed, you accepted the position. And unfortunately, I can't represent you anymore. Like we've gone through two days of negotiation. And I as your representative in I'm withdrawing you from, you know, from this position, like, because I knew that the company would be like, Absolutely not. It would have been embarrassing as a representative of the client to even go back or have the candidate to even go back to the client and say, yeah, she wants more now, now that she's accepted the position like so there's, there's don't get me started on on that. I'm 100%.
William Vanderbloemen 39:22
You know, what's interesting in these 12 habits, of the unicorns are one of them is anticipation. And so like, a perfect example of that is arming yourself with some information before you ever get to the salary negotiations. The best of the best are thinking a step or two ahead, and they develop that as a habit. It's not a hard habit to develop. It's just intentionally try those, you know, all 12 of those habits were super common among unicorns, and not common at all among everybody else and they're not on it. trainable, it was not, oh, they're all six foot five, or they don't have 175 IQ, or they all have fabulous hair and teeth. It wasn't anything. So it was, you know, simple interpersonal habits, that they showed that very few people do anticipations one, self awareness is one, it's it is a fascinating study.
Leighann Lovely 40:23
That's I would love to see the full study and like, really understand, because, again, you know, in HR, in sales in everything that I do, it's the study of humans and why they make the decisions they make, why they make the buying decisions, why they make the HR decisions, why they what, what is it in them, and I know, a lot of it is a great deal of it has to do with self awareness. And but the decision making process and how people's brains work and making a simple decision of why am I buying what I'm buying? Why am I not? What what is it that's triggering each decision that somebody made on a daily basis?
William Vanderbloemen 41:04
Fascinating, it is fascinating. And, you know, we got the whole research project, other than a pandemic, we were sitting around stuff, you know, time to spend, was kicked off by like, I've always wondered, like, you ever meet somebody, and within five minutes, you're like, winter?
Leighann Lovely 41:21
Oh, yeah. And meet somebody in it. You know, within five minutes. I'm like, trying to figure out how do I get out of this? Yeah.
William Vanderbloemen 41:31
It's not even like do I like him is just like, they're magnetic. Five minutes into the interview, I've learned not to say I should hire him because they might not be right for us. Tissue match? Right? But they are super hireable. And I've always wondered what makes them like that, why? I'm not dumb. Why within five minutes my in their camp. And that sort of kicked off the study, like, alright, of the best interviews we have, most of the time, when you sit down within five minutes, you're like, I'm interviewing a fantastic person right now. Whether or not they fit, and it just made us say Do they what they have in common. And it was stunning, how it's just simple interpersonal habits. We did the research for our own purposes, and then kept getting told you've got to crank this out for the public. And frankly, for people who want to get ahead. So we did write a book about it. And it does have the all the results. It's all awesome. What is your book? It's called be the unicorn. All right, perfect. And you can get that unicorn. Let's see if I can do the whole thing. Be the unicorn 12 data driven habits that separate the best leaders from the rest.
Leighann Lovely 42:38
And you can get that I'm assuming on Amazon, and you get it anyway. It's,
William Vanderbloemen 42:43
I don't know when you're airing this. You know, sometimes airing and recording are different. But the official on sale dates November 14, and pre sales are open right now. Awesome. Yeah, I think it'll be helpful to people, we're gonna put a workbook out afterwards, we've got some bonus content for people that pre order. But basically just want to try and help people get better. I really think as AI emerges, and it will replace a lot of our jobs, it's also going to create some jobs that we didn't know were there. That's what always happens. We've seen engines and computers and internet's it takes some jobs away to create some new ones. But I do think the of the gold standard in the job market over the next 10 years, is humans being able to interact with humans on a human level at an at an excellence that they haven't before. And all 12 of these habits are basic human interpersonal skills that anyone can do is just like, lots of people buy a treadmill and never use it. No, you got to apply. But but we have the data shows these are the things to work on, and then you'll just be irreplaceable. I think it's gonna help. I have a treadmill.
Leighann Lovely 43:53
It was a great idea when I decided to get a treadmill and now it's just a, you know, big piece of equipment that sits in my flippin spare bedroom. Okay, I will definitely be getting your book. I'm excited to read that. But we are coming to time I want to get the question of the season, answered by you and then get your contact information. So what do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three plus years?
William Vanderbloemen 44:24
Yeah. So I think that, you know, how cool would have been to live during the Renaissance?
Leighann Lovely 44:35
I'd love to, there wasn't enough
William Vanderbloemen 44:37
communication to know, hey, over in Portugal, they just did this. And over in Italy, Leonardo did that. And, you know, but there was so much going on at the same time. And that's pretty amazing. Or at the dawn of the Roman Empire, right? There's so much changing and happening. So like there, there are only a few times when that's happening. As you know, Alexander takes over the world. And instead of having 85 different Greek languages, he didn't one and things are unified. And there's all kinds of shifts or changes. Those are really like seismic shifts that as I look at world history, you know, they're really only ever three, four or 500 years. I think we're living right in the middle of one of those. And I don't just say that willy nilly, or to be melodrama, what I've studied it, I almost did a PhD in the history of doctrine, which is like, do you want curly fries with that, but studying the patterns, here's the here's the pattern. I see. Here's the key. There's enormous innovation breakthrough. But always before enormous innovation, breakthrough and disruption. There's a communication breakthrough. Every time Rome built roads, things changed. Alexander got one Greek things changed. There's a printing press, things change. There's, you know, you can see it, we've had the internet for a while. People think breakthroughs, communication breakthroughs happen in one day, or one year, they don't, they have to be adapted and adopted. One of the silver linings of the pandemic is people are now totally cool with technology. Like my mother's Church, which is slightly older than George Washington, is live streaming their services, they would never have done that before. So I think what's the world going to remember, this was a season of enormous, you could say disruption and chaos, or you could say, opportunity and new birth. And I think it's going to be both ghostly. But I think we're living in a renaissance. And I think history will prove this is one of the cooler times to be alive.
Leighann Lovely 46:44
I agree. And I don't think I mean, it's, it's, and I was just talking about this, I think that we are at the threshold of a of the beginning of the reset, where we're going to see with all of the inflation of of jobs going up and pricing going up, I think we're going to finally see a balance. And it's going to take another two or three years where we start to see things balance back out, where pricing is going to start to balance and level off. And we're not going to continue to see all of these rises, because I think we're already seeing companies start to go, Okay, we can't sustain these high inflated salaries in numbers. And we're already starting to see it here where companies are starting to come down and go, yep, our wages are no longer starting at this, we're, we're leveling that out. And if we can get those numbers back down, we'll start to see other things start to to level out as well. I just I agree, there's so many amazing things that have happened. I mean, obviously not the pandemic, but amazing things that happen because of what we all experience together. There's some beautiful things that came out of that. And now we're, we're struggling to, you know, get a hold of all the weird things that got off balance. But I've been saying it for now, over a year that there has to be a reset, to bring things back to a stable balance. And I think that we're at the threshold of that beginning. And I just Yeah, I agree. That was a great answer. Now, if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
William Vanderbloemen 48:24
Simple. Go to Google, spell Vanderbloemen any way you want, it will drive right back to our site. And our site also can drive you to be a unicorn. It also can drag you if you'll see when you get there. We've actually built an index around these 12 habits. And we've surveyed a quarter million people. So we have a nice baseline you can see how do I measure up against the general population? And how do I measure up against the unicorns? And what do I need to work on. So go to spell Vanderbloemen However you want in Google, you can also go to Amazon and spell Vanderbloemen however you want, it'll the name is so messed up. It'll lead right back to this
Leighann Lovely 49:05
and your name your it'll be on the show notes, you'll be able to find it. I'll have you know, your website, all that fun stuff so that you can you can
William Vanderbloemen 49:14
no kidding. Go type and spell it however you want. That's why we named the company what we did because it's really messed up and there's not another
Leighann Lovely 49:23
so people will be able to reach out to you, William, this has been such an amazing conversation. I really appreciate you coming on and I had so much fun talking with you today.
William Vanderbloemen 49:31
Thanks so much Leighann I appreciate you having me.
Leighann Lovely 49:35
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPY
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
job, hiring, interview, work, greatest weakness, find, habits, company, love, self awareness, talk, salary, business, unicorn, day, changed, candidates, church, grew, william
Wednesday Nov 01, 2023
Wednesday Nov 01, 2023
Discover how to approach office confrontations and harness healthy debate to propel your team forward. Our latest episode with leadership consultant Dotty Posto who helps leaders overcome the "Curse of Chordal Hypocrisy". Don't miss it!
Contact Dotty
Website – https://inplainsightinc.com/
E-mail - dotty@inplainsightinc.com
Leighann Lovely: [00:00:00] HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked, practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. Inclusion and diversity are common phrases, but often misunderstood.
Generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job. And how companies can create an environment to allow [00:01:00] them to do both.
Because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started. Dottie Posto, CEO and founder of In Plain Sight, a leadership consulting and coaching firm. How often in your organization do you think people are holding back what they really think or agreeing with a project or an idea when they really don't agree?
They're not saying what they really think. They're not saying what they really want to say, generally out of fear or out of loyalty. Yet outside the room, they agree with a person, they discount an idea, they discredit a leader or demean a team member. This is what Dotty calls the Curse of Chordal Hypocrisy.
It robs companies of creativity, productivity, [00:02:00] and ultimately profits. Dotty specializes in guiding leaders and teams in building trust, cultivating healthy debate, and ultimately establishing a culture of accountability and outstanding results. In addition, Dotty specializes in coaching those leaders or team members who are Quite frankly, a real jerk.
In other words, when your MVP is an ASS, these folks who rob your organization of innovation, engagement, opportunity, and ultimately revenue, Dottie guides these leaders to become the leader everyone wants to work with. Welcome Dottie. I am so excited to have you join me today.
Dotty Posto: I'm excited to be here. I think it's going to be fun.
Leighann Lovely: Yes. So why don't you start off by telling the audience a little bit about who you are and what you do?
Dotty Posto: Sure. I am a leadership [00:03:00] consultant and coach. And what I tell people is, you know, when you have that person in your office, either usually leader, but sometimes, you know, one of those office members, who's just a jerk, you know, yeah.
Yeah. So I specialize, I work with all sorts of leaders and teams and do leadership development and team development, but I do specialize with the leaders who've gotten Does not play well with others a few too many times on their report card. A friend of mine, Pat helped me coin the, the tagline for my business as when your MVP is an ASS.
That's where I come in and help that leader become the leader everyone wants to work for.
Leighann Lovely: That's awesome. Because there are some really brilliant people out there just don't get it that they're great at their job. But when it comes to actually leading [00:04:00] the team or communicating or having emotional It's just not, it's just not what, it's just not their strong point.
Dotty Posto: Yeah. I like to call it emotional fluency. Okay. I haven't heard that. Yeah. It's where, you know, under being able to be fluent, first of all, with all your own emotions. And then to be able to, I think the intelligence comes, you know, knowing there's a certain level of being intelligent, I can be intelligent about something, but not fluent and being fluent, emotional fluency is being able to ride all of the waves, experience all of them without getting caught up in them.
I mean, emotions are literally a vibration in our body. And too many people try to hold anything that they might refer to as negative. I call it constrictive. They try to hold it down like a beach ball underwater and it's going to pop up at some
Leighann Lovely: point. That's a really good analysis. Absolutely. And, and I, [00:05:00] I totally agree because when we even as children for a very long time, and this is changing.
Very much changing, but even as children, many people grew up with the idea that it's okay to laugh. It's okay to have fun, but if you're going to cry or if you're mad, go to your room.
Dotty Posto: Okay. Oh yeah. Yeah. It goes somewhere else or it's not, or don't, you know, you're going to upset daddy or you're going to, you know,
Leighann Lovely: it, and that's, that's not okay.
Like we need to understand that all emotion is normal. All emotion is okay. It's how we process and how we deal with that and that we're not allowed to, you know, go in. Punch somebody in the face. If we're feeling angry, that's not healthy, but that you need to, you need to take the moment to process that information because when you start laughing, people don't go, go to your room.
Most people are like, Oh, I'm going to laugh along with you. Unless you're in
Dotty Posto: school, [00:06:00] you know, the class clown was also, you know, the, the person who, you know, personalities have been damped down for so long that I don't, that I think so many people don't really know who they are at their core. That's yes.
And that's a lot of what I do is I help. I help people come back to who they are at their core. No one wakes up in the morning going, I'm going to be an asshole today. I'm sorry, but
Leighann Lovely: well, maybe somebody does, but they don't, they would never admit that that's the kind of person
Dotty Posto: they want to be. I know, but I kind of doubt it.
I don't, I kind of doubt they're like, I am just going to go in and be the. I'm gonna be the asshole of the, of the, you know, that's my job is to be, you know, and I think some people say it's my job to, to, you know, they, they've even learned from previous mentors that they had to lead in a very command and control and, and demeaning and degrading and aggressive that they had to be that.
You know, come out with your, with your gloves on kind of leader [00:07:00] and it's just not necessary. You can inspire, you can be firm. You can hold people accountable from a place of motivation and inspiration and, and firmness. And if you've got the base. If you've got the base and the foundation to that, that's been built on.
Leighann Lovely: So let's talk about that. So, I mean, you're, you obviously you're a coach and you're a coach, you're a consultant, you work with organizations, so you are brought in obvious and I'm going to guess that. Typically the person who is considered the ASS at the organization is not always the person who's engaging you, correct?
It's usually gonna be a board of directors, or it's gonna be a, you know, somebody who's either equal to them or above them who's gonna say, Hey, mm-Hmm . This person's highly intelligent, highly, we want them at our company. However, Dottie, what do we do? [00:08:00] How do you go about and where do you begin? This work
Dotty Posto: where we begin, if it's possible, I'll do a three 60, I'll have them do a three 60 assessment, or if they've had one recently to just at least get the perspective of their leader, get the perspective of any subordinates and get their perspective, their own perspective on what's happening.
And we really go in and start to look at. Where are their gifts and talents? Where are they spending their energy? What's, what's amplifying their energy and what's draining their energy? And are they fully aware of that? Because oftentimes they're engaged in activities that drain their energy and they don't realize it or engaged in activities that are just not in their unique ability.
They're not in their core talents. And when you do that, you have to know. That they're out of alignment so that you can resource yourself ahead of time to do those things and then also [00:09:00] have time to recover and re energize afterwards. So that's a big 1st step, getting that that assessment and and kind of gauging where they are in the self awareness.
Where do they really see and understand the impact that. Their, their actions are having, we don't go directly and focus on, okay, let's go and try and change those behaviors. Because if somebody just tries to white knuckle their way through changing behaviors, or if they're just sent to training, you know, I always call it the charm school, you know, they're sent to communications training and emotional intelligence training.
And if it doesn't come back to working on. What's going through your brain? Are you really aware of all the thoughts going through your brain, which none of us are because there's 60 to 80, 000 thoughts a day, but getting them to a point of that self awareness of what's going on in my head. And how is that making me feel?
Because oftentimes there's this baseline or this general [00:10:00] sense of annoyance, irritation, frustration, and We need to figure out they think it's coming from the people outside of them, and it's not at all. It's all coming from their thoughts. And so it's trying to help them make those connections so that they can choose different behaviors because just, you know, because if you can start to feel like I'm starting to get annoyed, where's that coming from?
I can feel the annoyance, getting that level of awareness where I have that, that agency and choice. So we take them from that deep awareness. Of first of all, where, where are my gifts and talents and where is my energy going? And what's, what is, am I aware of the impact that I'm having to start to really come into what, what is happening with.
What's going on in my head and how is that impacting and helping them see it's not everything out there because that's generally what most people think It's them. It's not me. They're overreacting or
Leighann Lovely: whatever [00:11:00] And as you're saying that, you know, I'm like again, you know the million thoughts that go through all of our heads right as you're saying this like I have these like situations or even even like And my audience, I go back to like, my husband comes home and he tells me all these stories about like, what's happening at his office or what's happening or not his office, but his, his employee employer or whatever.
And, and, and I, I try to become more self aware, especially when I'm around my five year olds, right? So, because as a parent. It's, it's very easy to get slipped into this, like, why isn't she doing what I'm telling her to do? And then you can feel the stress rise up in you. And then that tone happens in my voice.
And my daughter, like, knows when that happens. And then she just pokes the bear. And she's just like, ooh, mommy's upset. Like, and so then she just... Digs in and she's like, no, I'm not going to do that. And I'm like, but you have to do, like, why aren't you listening? [00:12:00] And it just, and it just snowballs into like me all of a sudden raising my voice.
My husband looking at me going, she's not going to react to you yelling at her. You know that she doesn't, she. thinks it's funny and it's like, okay. And so I've, I have personally, you know, tried to become more self aware, keeping my voice regulated, understanding when I can feel my blood pressure start to go up and we, we as people, it's much easier to see it happen in somebody else.
But it's really hard to recognize, you know, cause I, I'll look at my husband and go, is it happening to me? Am I starting to, is my voice going up? Like, and, and I'll do the same to him. Like, okay, you're getting annoyed. I'm gonna take over. You go, I don't know, outside and run around the block or something before you like have a heart attack because you're so, like I can see it in your shoulder.
And when you're at a job, [00:13:00] which you know, for me and you, we work remotely, we work, you know, we're independents were, so I don't have to watch it. So I listened to my husband's stories, but he'll come home and be like, Oh, you should have seen so and so today. You could just see in his walk, you know, and he's like, so I didn't talk to him because I knew that if I did, it would be an immediate explosion of just blah, blah, blah, blah.
And it's like, exactly.
Dotty Posto: And so many people. Are you get it? You've got a situation where if you have a leader that that is their modus operandi, that's their that's the mode they operate in on a consistent basis. They do exactly what your husband did. They avoid them, right? Or they please them. They agree with them.
It's what I call the curse of cordial hypocrisy. They please them, they say yes, they agree, and outside the room they're like, that's a bunch of garbage, [00:14:00] that'll never fly, that person's a jerk, you know, and that's all happening outside the room, and inside the room they're like, mm hmm, yeah, great idea, Joe, that's a, Jayden, that's a really good idea, I think we should do that, and outside the room they're like, that'll never fly, we've done that before and it failed.
Leighann Lovely: Oh my God, duh, right? And then no progress is ever made. And then you get
Dotty Posto: no creativity. You get productivity goes down the tubes because half the time, and if you've got a great, if you've got a remote workforce, even several, a few days a week. How much time are they spending on teams behind the scenes bitching and complaining, you know, talking about other people, talking about all the challenges and they're not productive, you're losing productivity, you're losing creativity, you're losing innovation, you're going to hit risks that nobody wanted to bring up because they were too afraid.
That something, you know, that something was going to, somebody was going to fly off the handle. I'm not saying anything. And no one wants to give feedback for the same reason, right? So not my job.
Leighann Lovely: Right. And if [00:15:00] it's, I'm
Dotty Posto: not going to say anything, I'm going to get, they're too afraid. They're either too afraid or they're too loyal.
Maybe they're worked with that person for so long that it's like, Oh, you know, they're going through a hard time, but you know,
Leighann Lovely: anybody is. And if you're a subordinate to that person, which is usually the case, You can't call the person out because you risk being fired or reprimanded or so this cycle will continue to, which is why high turnover in people who have managers like that because they either agree constantly and become the yes person or they do stand up and they say something and that manager goes, well, I don't need this.
stress, and they just get rid of the person because they think that person is the problem.
Dotty Posto: And that, that very well can happen. This is why one of the, one of the pillars of [00:16:00] what we do in organizations like this, because oftentimes it isn't just this one leader. So that's why I like pairing the individual coaching with some team development, whether that's, you know, the CEO and a senior lead senior leadership team, or a senior leader and their team.
Building a culture of feedback is so important, but you can't have that if you don't have the underlying trust. And if you don't have that opportunity, the opposite of the cordial hypocrisy, the healthy opposite of that is healthy debate. Can we have an argument about the ideas without getting personal, without being aggressive and, and, and even maybe our voices get loud.
But it's passion about the idea, and it's passion about the experience, and it's making sure that what we're doing is right for the company, you can, you know, getting to that passionate level of debate so that you can have a place where the subordinate can go to a person and go, you know, what, [00:17:00] what just happened in that room?
You know, you don't call them out right in the middle of the meeting. And some, some organizations get to that level where it's like, well, we need a timeout here. What just happened really, I think is hurting people in the room, you know, and there's organizations that have that level. But even if you could, even if you can build the culture to the point of being able to have a subordinate, go to their boss afterwards and say, Here's what I saw happen, and here's the impact that I saw on the team, and here's the impact that it had on me, and I think this is going to be destructive over time.
Leighann Lovely: Have you seen organization, and you know, this in my head, I'm like, that would be so amazing to work in an organization in which you had that level of trust with your manager as well as your subordinates. And I have, I've had the opportunity to work with. with people who reported to me and I, and, and, and every time I would say, I am not like, [00:18:00] I'm not a butterfly.
You don't have to, you know, handle me in a way. And if I ever say something, if I ever do something, if I ever make you feel uncomfortable in. Any way ever, you just need to come out with it, just plain and simple. I didn't like this. We'll talk about it. And most likely if, if it's, you know, if I made you feel uncomfortable, I'm going to apologize because it, there's, there's not going to be a debate about it because it's about your feelings.
You felt a certain way. And then I'm going to say, I'm sorry, I made you feel that way. Let's figure out how we can rectify that situation so that you don't feel that way again. Doesn't mean that I was necessarily wrong in that situation. However,
Dotty Posto: I, yeah, I think the language is really, you have to be really careful with that language because [00:19:00] our feelings come from our thoughts, right?
And so if I'm doing something, if a behavior I'm doing is having a negative effect. Yes. If it's hurting people, yes, I want to know that that negative impact is there, right? And we have to, I think there's people, it's a gray area in between because people can take it, you know, well, I can't make you feel anything because really our thoughts create our feelings.
However, there are things that we do and say that are, are just out of line and that are just rude and are from a place of, of.
What is the word? I can't even think of the word where it's, it's, they're, they're meaning harm, you know, and, and, you know, it's like the, the oath, the Hippocratic oath, do no, you know, first do no harm. Right. You know, as long as you're not intentionally harming. And sometimes we unintentionally harm people with what we say and what we do.
Right. And you can't just [00:20:00] pass that off. It's, it's our thoughts. And some people have a pattern of thinking that everything they see, they have this confirmation bias that everything they see is against them.
Leighann Lovely: Yes. And you're right. And I always what am I trying to say, you know, situations or perception is reality that, so the way that people perceive a situation.
That is the reality to them and the, the reality of, of each situation is yes, everybody's feelings of the difference that that's their own, I mean, we can have five people sitting in a room and all walk out feeling a completely different way. I can't control people's feelings. However, if I'm, if I am doing an action, let's say we'll use something really, really stupid as an example, but we're going to use it to really dumb this down.
If I have a manager who's, let's say an old school manager, cause I'm going to use an example. I'm going to kind of change the situation here a little [00:21:00] bit. I, I had a shirt that was to me being my age at that time, I was in my twenties. I didn't believe that it was that low of a cut shirt. Okay. But I had a much older manager when I was in my twenties and he pulled me aside, basically said it's inappropriate for the work setting.
And I'm like, Okay, but it's not that low cut. They had a special dress code and everything else. And his idea was you're making people feel uncomfortable with a shirt that is cut that low in the work environment. And I thought, how could I be making people feel uncomfortable? By wearing this type. Now, perception is reality.
If he felt uncomfortable because he didn't feel that it was business appropriate or business attire appropriate, perception is reality. To [00:22:00] him, he was my boss. So he basically put, and very tactfully said, and you know, I didn't find it in an appropriate conversation. It was, you know, people feel a little uncomfortable with what you're wearing.
Okay. That was a learning experience for me when I was in my twenties. Don't wear, and again, it's not like I had my breasts hanging out, but and so I've always made certain that if there are situations in which something that I'm doing, I would so much prefer that somebody just walk up to me and say, here's what, what your action was.
This is how I perceived it and therefore I feel this way. Okay, perfect. Let's lay all of our feelings out there. I then have a great
Dotty Posto: way to put it, right? This is what I perceive is. This is my perception of that action or that those words
Leighann Lovely: because I very [00:23:00] well did. I had no intent of walking into that office that day with a shirt that, I mean, that was not my intent at all.
In fact, I thought, wow, I look really great. I look really professional. That was my intent and that's how I perceived myself. And three other people said, well, you look great. Because again, perception is reality, but until we are told differently, our own perception cannot change until we step into somebody else's shoes and find out that there are alternative perceptions equaling then alternative feelings about it.
And that's where it gets to be such a sticky situation. Because you have no idea, and some of those things we can change. I mean, if somebody says red makes me feel bad, well, you can't, [00:24:00] you can't avoid wearing red at all. You know, that's, it's just one of those things that unfortunately you can't accommodate all situations.
But we can attempt to eliminate.
Dotty Posto: Yeah. Let me give you a perfect example of that. I I, I come from a family of seven. I have seven siblings. So there's eight kids and my two parents, my parents are gone now, but I grew up in a family of 10 people and it was loud. Everybody was loud. Most everybody. And my husband even says, yes, you come from the loud family.
And so oftentimes when I'm
But there's times where I start speaking like this and you can probably hear me just fine and this is lower than my normal volume and it's taken me. I still sometimes have to like, recalibrate, recalibrate [00:25:00] people would get offended and think I was yelling at them when I wasn't. It was just my natural voice.
And for some people, for some leaders, they might just say, well, that's just who I am. It takes time and practice. I had a peer on at the time who would sit next to me and under the table, he would just do this, which meant bring down the volume because I was, you know, part of it would be if I was getting excited and people would take it as I was getting angry.
I'm like, I'm almost never angry, but it's just, it's that habit that you. You don't even, I don't even hear it all the time because It was a habit that I grew up with that I think is just a part of who I am, and it's not. It's a habit. It's not a great habit. It's a habit.
Leighann Lovely: Have you ever been around a Greek [00:26:00] family?
My, my my dad married a Greek woman, okay? So, I think part of the reason I'm losing my hearing, or I'm having trouble with my hearing, is because in our family, you know, holidays, by the end, we'd all practically be losing our voice because it was a fight to be heard. Now my, we go to a restaurant and I, and I do really have problems with my hearing in background noise.
And that's, it's actually a lot more common than. Then I knew when you're at a networking meeting or you're at a restaurant that has, you know, music playing and my husband does this to me all the time, he'll look at me and go, why are you screaming at me? And I'm like, what are you talking about? And he goes, you're yelling.
And I'm like, Oh, I am. And I realize it's because there's music playing in the restaurant or there's people talking and I [00:27:00] can't hear him. So I assume it's loud. So I start yelling across the table
Dotty Posto: at him. Exactly. Exactly. And these are just, you know, silly examples and it's the same thing with a leader who is triggered by something, you know, that gets defensive and whatever their defense mechanism is that they probably learned when they were seven and they just don't realize it.
You know, it was, it was whatever habit that, that they developed to, to become, to be safe, to be heard, to be loved, to belong, to, you know, all of these things. And they're just patterns and habits that they, it's like water to the fish. They don't even know what's there. It is so ingrained and to be able to, to be able to some distance between that behavior and to get, get somebody who they trust, who can give them some kind of a sign, some kind of a thing, or even afterwards to say.[00:28:00]
It happened again, right? Or they could, you know, they could have a, a little facial, they'll put their finger on their cheek or, you know, maybe tap their chin or just something that says. It's happening again because bringing that level of awareness, giving somebody feedback after the fact is fine, you know, and if you do that enough, they're going to start to go.
Oh, yeah, I can kind of see that then you want to pull it back further so that as they are doing it, they can realize and they can drop the voice. They can do whatever and they can shift. See if they can shift, they can at least recognize it while they're doing it and they might not be able to shift. The next step is to pull it back where they recognize it in the moment and they're able to make the shift in the moment.
The, the, the real, you know, getting to the real point of mastery is where you can start to feel, well, there's two, two other levels. One is you start to feel the emotion that triggers that action. [00:29:00] And you can, you can feel it coming and you might not be able to stop it, but you can start to feel. And, and that's why helping people to actually feel the vibrations in their body for all the different emotions.
What does anger feel like? What was, what does annoyance feel like? What does irritation feel like? And all these have a slightly different vibration in our body and getting people to actually become in tune with that. And I actually have an exercise a tool that I use from a coaching program that I went through called the Tears of Emotions and getting people to actually purposefully feel all these different emotions.
And start to feel what does it feel like in their body? And where do I, do I feel, you know, do I feel something in my throat? Do I feel something in my gut? Do I feel something in the, the pit of my stomach or in my lower back? And when you can start to feel that, and sometimes you might not be able to stop it, you might still, you know, spew some garbage or, you [00:30:00] know, start to turn red and irritated or shut down.
You've got the other ones that. But just lean back and shut down, but getting to the point of then being able to say, here's how I want to intentionally come into this. You know, I know that, that, you know, in these kinds of situations, I tend to blah, blah, blah. I tend to, you know, raise my voice. I tend to shut down the conversation.
I tend to maybe cut up, cut people off and interrupt and try to go into it more intentionally, but the more they can use their thoughts to actually create a feeling of, I'm going to be open. I am going to be you know, and it's interesting, we, we were at an event together and I loved how the speaker put it being fertile ground, you know, how can, that's one thing is that, that I will use because active listening is one thing.
Being fertile ground for, you know, as a listener is a whole nother level.
Leighann Lovely: Correct. That, and I agree with that because and here's with everything that you just said, like, [00:31:00] as you were saying, like knowing your body's reaction, I, I early on I, my listeners know my mental health history. I struggled with anger management.
And so very early on in my, in my age, my journey I was taught how to understand because I used to get angry to the point of seeing red to the point where sometimes I wouldn't remember what I did after I hit that level where it would be like, okay, did I just do, what did I just do? And that has to do with my bipolar disorder.
So from a very early, when I started going through, I went through like three years of like intensive anger management. Again, tied to bipolar, it's not uncommon that people who have mental health also have, you know, other avenues. Anyways, point being is that I can feel My entire, I mean, that physical change that there's with emotion, you know, when you, when you laugh to the point of when you're [00:32:00] crying, you can feel your body usually get lighter.
You can feel those endorphins being released when you get angry. It's the same physiological. Change happening where you can feel that bubbling up to the point of, you know, and I, I can feel my whole entire face start to get red. I can feel the blood moving into in, you know, into my head. I can feel my hands start to shake and that has, it hasn't happened in so long.
I haven't been that. Angry because I'm able to stop it where I'm actually able to go. Okay, we need to breathe. We need to Evaluate that situation we need to but having that heightened awareness of your emotions you you're able to actually Control take a step back breathe or whatever it is that you do in order to Kind of control that and then go, okay, let me assess the situation.
Like, should I be this angry? Should I be [00:33:00] this emotional? Should I be and sometimes it is, especially sadness, I think is one of the ones that kind of, it's hard to control that. Because usually, you know, if there's a death of the family, those types of things are, are probably the most difficult, but, and I think
Dotty Posto: the word control is very appropriate and yet very cautionary.
Yeah, and the reason I say that is that. If you're in a situation where that emotion isn't appropriate. And oftentimes we want to distinguish between. Am I feeling my emotion? Am I allowing the emotion, which is a vibration in our body, or am I expressing it? Those are two very different things. Right. To, to actually raise your voice, to pound your fist on the table, to scream, to cry, to, to whatever it is.
That is the expression that [00:34:00] is a performative expression of that emotion. The emotion is actually a vibration in our body and we can allow it. And regardless, if, if sometimes you need to have a physical release of an emotion, it might not be in that moment. I always recommend to people make a promise to yourself.
That at five o'clock when you get home or six o'clock, whatever, when you're in a space where you can, you promise yourself that you're going to feel it right. And maybe in that moment, you don't get as angry as you thought you might have been. And we don't want to just stuff them down because again, it's like trying to hold the beach ball underwater.
Right. Eventually it's going to pop up. Right. People end up with strokes, heart attacks you know, different internal diseases. Cancer all sorts of things because we've stuffed our emotions down for so long,
Leighann Lovely: right? And you're right control is not the rights.
Dotty Posto: It's what it is I mean, it's [00:35:00] controlling you want you may want to control the situation.
So I think it can be appropriate I want to control my reaction. Yeah, because in the moment, I don't want to react so I think control is a great word I just don't want people to interpret that as I have to control it and then close the door on it. Like I'm pushing, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to close the door and leave it there.
That's how I control it. That's
Leighann Lovely: different. Yeah. No, not shoving it in a closet to never be seen again, but
Dotty Posto: it's, it's what's appropriate in the moment. What's going to actually move the conversation forward. What is going to get us the goal we're looking for? And maybe for some people it might be. You know what?
Something I'm triggered in this and I am so angry. I cannot have this conversation right now. Give me 10 minutes. Let me go. I need to go take a walk. I need to go think about this. I need to and really what they need is they need to go allow the emotion for a while, right? And whatever that looks like. A lot of people will go and say, I'm going to go for a run.
I'm going to go for a [00:36:00] walk. And all they're doing again is avoiding the emotion. I'm going to go
Leighann Lovely: take a baseball bat to your car. No, I'm sorry. That is an unhealthy expression. Go scream in a pillow.
Dotty Posto: Or I always, this is one way I recommend people. If you do feel like you can't like one of you have, it is bubbling up so hard and you can't allow it.
Is take a plastic baseball bat to your bed. Yeah. You know, those kids baseball bats
Leighann Lovely: take that to the bed. Mine was, mine was the screaming in a pillow, just laying down and just screaming at the top of my lungs. And it was like, okay, now I feel great. That's, that's all I needed to do. I just needed to release whatever that was that like bubbled up in me and, and now I'm fine.
Like, and it's different for everybody. Like, you know, and sometimes it was, I need to go and cry for a second. Don't tell me that this is a situation in which I don't need to [00:37:00] cry. There's no reason to feel it. I just need to feel it, you know, and now that we are finally getting to a point in society where it's like.
Oh, it's okay to feel emotion. Like I'm not ashamed to be like, yep, I give me 10 minutes. I'm going to go feel what I need to feel. I'm going to go, I don't know, be pissed off at the situation for 10 minutes and then clean my face up and I'll be right back and then we can have dinner. Yeah. Yeah.
Dotty Posto: Exactly.
Because when our emotions are so heightened like that. We are in fight, flight, or freeze. And when we're in fight, flight, or freeze, our prefrontal cortex goes offline. We literally do not have access. To our thinking, planning, strategizing, we can't be logical because all the brain, all of the blood comes out of that part of our brain that fight, flight, or freeze, it goes [00:38:00] to the big muscle group so that we can run or defend and our body goes in to defend.
Because we literally think that we're going to die. Our brain, our primitive brain, is literally thinking that we're going to die. Interesting. Our primitive brain and our prefrontal cortex... They've evolved differently. And so we have to understand that this is all natural, right? It is natural for you to get pissed off because you think that this person, like there's your body, your brain, that primitive part of your brain thinks you're actually, you know, it's like get back in the cave, you know, or go fight the law, you know, because you're going to die, right?
We are trying to save humanity here. That's what you're, that's what your permanent brain is thinking. We are trying to save you.
Leighann Lovely: Wow. That's, and that's, it, it makes. Yes. It makes sense because every other creature, every other mammal out there has that [00:39:00] innate Instinctual reaction to either run or fight, whereas
Dotty Posto: did you ever see a bird hit a window and then it lays on the ground for a while and you think it's dead.
Leighann Lovely: Oh, yeah. I've picked him up before and like, I should get rid of this. And then they go like, right. And then you're like, Oh, my God.
Dotty Posto: They're totally fine. Right. You know. It happens in the, in the in the, in the, you know, out on the, the, what the planes, whatever, out in, you know, where an animal will play dead because then they might be left alone.
Right.
Leighann Lovely: I had a hawk hit my, my front door. I mean, a huge, huge hawk. It sounded like somebody was trying to break into my house. And and then it sat for eight hours. Eight hours. In our neighborhood and, and my neighbors were like, we couldn't understand why this hawk wouldn't leave. And I'm like, how long did it sit in your yard?
They're like, for like four hours. And I'm like, Oh my God, because it hit so hard [00:40:00] that it, it couldn't move. It just, and it was beautiful. I mean this, I've never seen one. So, cause it was, I mean, this thing was, I'm making hand gestures like my audience can see me, but yeah, that's and so it's, it's goes.
To show that, you know, animals and we are an animal and, but because we're intelligent, we think that, that we're beyond our, our, you know, nature, which is not true. No,
Dotty Posto: so that part of our brain is still there. We just have to, you know, and my, the coach that I went through training with says. It's like a two year old with a knife, right?
You know, and I always call it a two year old with a red crayon in a white room. Yeah. Yeah. You know, fun times. And it's like, you can, you can allow them to be there. Somebody else talks about it as you can allow that to be there. You can allow that part of you to be there. Just don't leave them in the driver's seat, put them in the backseat saying, yeah, you can come along.
Anxiety, [00:41:00] depression, you know, I gotcha. You know, I understand you're here today. You're here along with me. I'm going to carry you around like a heavy purse or whatever it is. You know, but don't let them, don't put them in the driver's seat. How do we not allow them to get into the driver's seat? Right.
Leighann Lovely: So you and I want to cover this really quick because we're coming to time already and geez, but you use a triple the triple a foundation, often authenticity, accountability and action. How do you, I mean, and we've talked quite a bit about, you know, the different ways that, that you work with these individuals, how, how does that play a role?
Dotty Posto: So. Authenticity this, I mean, probably 15 years ago, I even came up, I mean. When I, what I talked about earlier, who we are at our core, helping people come back to who they are at their core. What are your preferences? What are your gifts? What are your talents? And operating from that, starting to [00:42:00] know about what that part of that, what that developed self is that you developed around it, those habits and patterns that served you as a five year old that served you as a teenager that served you as a young adult that just no longer serve you.
And. helping to come to that awareness. So that to me is the authenticity piece. Okay. The accountability piece is then becoming responsible as how can I hold myself responsible and accountable for being that person and for, for being aware of that developed self and being aware of what I. What I have agency over getting agency over those habits and patterns that have ruled our life for so long my life, anyone's life, and I've ruled our life for so long and then building.
I use the 5 dysfunctions of a team often. So accountability from a team perspective. Has to do with building trust, healthy debate and commitment in that order to [00:43:00] get to that point of accountability. Only then can we actually start to look at, okay, what actions are we going to do differently? Yes. And you walked through
Leighann Lovely: all of those
Dotty Posto: and we can't just focus on action because then we're just trying to white knuckle.
And like I said, the other piece of it is our thoughts and our feelings drive our actions. Our thoughts drive our feelings. Our feelings drive our actions. You know, they'll tell you that in sales, everything is an emotional sale. We only buy something because of how we think it's going to make us feel.
Right. And we feel that way because how we think about it, because you're going to buy something for a very different reason than I'm going to buy it. Absolutely.
Leighann Lovely: And that's, and, and I love the study, obviously you, you know, I love the study of people. The reason I have this podcast, the reason I go into the reason I have a sales business is because everybody is unique.
Everybody has unique needs, but there is a product out there that people will buy all for their own selfish reason. And to solve the problem and are driven [00:44:00] by their own selfish, and that's not a bad thing by their own selfish desire to solve the problem. And if it's a personal thing, the way that it makes them feel at the end of the day, you know, so we are coming to time and I want to ask you the question of the season.
This season it is what do you think will go down in the history books of what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Dotty Posto: You know, when I first looked at this question, the thing, you know, when you look at 3 years, obviously COVID is such a huge part of that. And it would be very interesting to, you know, I heard recently about some people who worked on COVID 5 years before it hit the U.
And, and was, were a part of some research, research and things and. The research got shut down. And so they ended up working for a company out of China because they could see what was coming. That that's [00:45:00] kind of like the, what seems to be like the no brainer answer is COVID when you look back the last three years, and I don't think we're far enough into it, and I think this whole, the whole situation between Palestine.
And Israel is probably a potential for making the history books. I'm not close enough to it. I don't know enough about it and where things are going to, what I'm hearing about it in terms of how long it's going to last. I think if we look from here back, COVID is obviously one of the big things, I think from here going forward is potentially this, you know, the situation with the Ukraine and, and Russia and then Palestine and Israel.
Leighann Lovely: And it's, it's amazing how how much this world has changed. In such a short period of time, what [00:46:00] we, what if, you know, had somebody asked me four years ago what the world would have looked like, there is no possible way that anybody could have predicted the amount of things that have happened in such a short period of time with, you know, a world shutdown with, you know, another uprising.
I mean, these are just. Moments in history repeating themselves, but another uprising with, you know, riots in the street you know, race wars another possible, I mean, with everything happening, is this going to turn into a world war depending on so yeah, I mean, it's, it's such a, such a strange time in history that so many things are being squashed into a very, short time spanned that it's that it's wildly interesting.
So if somebody wanted to reach out to you how would they go about doing that? [00:47:00]
Dotty Posto: My website is inplainsiteinc.com or they can email me at dotty @ inplainsightinc and it's plain P L A I N and site S I G H T. So inplain, dotty at inplainsightinc. com. D O T T Y that is not D O T T I E D O T T Y at in plain sight, inc.
Leighann Lovely: com. Excellent. And that'll be in the show notes for anybody who is interested in reaching out to Dottie. I'm sure that you can also find her on some social media platforms, but you know, please feel free to reach out to her if you are looking for a coaching and consulting, if you have a leader that.
Is an ASS . It was an awesome conversation. Dotty, I really appreciate you coming on and talking with me. It's been a, it's been a blast. Thanks for having me, Leanne. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk hr. I appreciate your time and support. Without you, the audience, this would not be possible, so don't forget that.
If you enjoyed this [00:48:00] episode to follow us, like us or share us, have a wonderful day.
Adam Gellert serial entrepreneur and lifer in the staffing industry joins me for a very enlighten conversation about the future of staffing and the workforce as we know it. Adam now the Founder and CEO of HireHippo and The Linkus Group Inc. permanent placement firms that take a different approach to hiring individuals. As he has moved through his career, he saw gaps in the market and have shifted to fill those gaps. Now offering a network of top talent of passive candidates, eliminating resume reviews and focusing on skills and culture. Join this amazing conversation with a forward-thinking entrepreneur.
Contact Adam -
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamgellert/
Websites –
Recruiteradam.com
hiredhippo.ai
linkushr.com
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann lovely. Let's get this conversation started.
Leighann Lovely 01:09
Adam Gellert is on a mission to build the greatest marketplace of pre vetted diverse high potential candidates and companies, reshaping the job application process with candidate experience and helping companies hire their most passionate teammates from one to 250. He eats, sleeps and breathes recruitment. He can talk for hours about anything to do with growth of an organization from a people standpoint, attraction, retention, culture fit alignment and best practices in the modern world. He's an entrepreneur at heart currently on a mission to reshape recruitment and change the candidate experience. Founder and CEO at hire hippo, a hiring marketplace connecting pre vetted high potential diverse candidates and companies based on mutual interest like a dating app and saying goodbye to resumes. He noticed a gap in the industry as a founder of Linksys group, a recruitment firm supporting startups and SMBs in Canada and US. His typical clients is under 50 people. He started the company with the intent to disrupt the recruitment industry. And they are doing just that he has a fantastic team. And they work very hard to build championship teams for their clients that can sustain a winning outlook again and again since 2002. He has been instrumental in building teams both at the corporate and recruitment agency levels. He is known for building strong relationships with clients as an honest, driven and progressive individual with major organizations across Canada and the United States. With a passion for delivering cost savings and efficient business results. He took the next step in offering clients an alternative to traditional hiring. He's active in the tech startup and small business community co created the talent help list co created the disrupt HR Vaughn and previous chair, hR p a PD dinner committee, their leading KPI, it's their reoccurring clients a testament to the value they bring. I am very excited to talk to Adam, a serial entrepreneur. Adam, welcome. I am excited to talk with you today. Thank you for joining me.
Adam Gellert 03:36
Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate being here.
Leighann Lovely 03:40
Yeah. So why don't you start off and, you know, tell everybody a little bit, you know, a little background about who you are and what you do.
Adam Gellert 03:48
Yeah, so I'm Adam Gellert, the founder of the linkage group, and higher tempo. Essentially, I run both a high touch recruiting agency as well as a recruitment technology that we will, that we believe will change the face of how people get hired and how companies hire their high performers. Essentially, what the tech does is works with SMBs and startups that go from one to 250 people on getting quick access to exclusive high potential pre vetted talent without having to worry about recruiting the recruiting process, they can skip the entire recruitment process and go straight to interview because we do all that upfront work for them with the technology so that's what I'm doing now also involved, co founded the talent helpless, which was a COVID layoff list. It was like the first of its kind that I'm aware of anyways, and disrupt HR Vaughn, which is global HR disrupt, disrupt as a global HR brand. So I'm just obsessed and very involved in the recruitment process that I have been for the last two decades, essentially. You know, we can talk about anything to do with attraction, hiring, retention, and that's just a bit about me.
Leighann Lovely 05:20
Awesome. Yeah, you are. You're a serial entrepreneur, you've been in the industry of staffing in one way or another for the last two decades. That is, that's amazing. So, you know, I say that, once you're in the staffing industry, you're either a lifer, or you run like how the other way after a couple of years because you can't handle the stress. So you're clearly a lifer in the staffing industry, which is, which is awesome, because it's, it definitely grabs hold of you, doesn't it?
Adam Gellert 05:53
Oh, yeah. I like pain. I like pain.
Leighann Lovely 05:58
Right? That's that? Yep. Absolutely.
Adam Gellert 06:01
Yeah, I find that like, you know, just based on, you know, what you said, I It's so true, right? Like most people, it's the, you know, industry that most people just I don't like it when, you know, people won't not necessarily don't like but you know, a lot of people say Hey, should I get into recruiting because I like people or like connecting people. And it's not just, you know, it's very surface level expectation of the industry and the role, it's extremely hard. You know, it can be life sucking at times that can be very thankless, and you just have to have a like, really big passion for developing really strong connections in, in the work environment, making sure that it's a long term game with long term people. And that, you know, essentially, like you can, you can, you know, roll with very hard scenarios and, you know, still love connecting people that can accelerate their career and companies that can, you know, hire their top performers that go on to really, really great things. That's the key. It's a business strategy over a people strategy.
Leighann Lovely 07:16
So tell me about Linksys because you said that this is a tech, it's technology connecting people. What type of recruitment is this? Is it? Is it on the general labor? Is it high level individuals explain what that app or that technology does?
Adam Gellert 07:37
Yeah, that's, that's a fair question. So Linkous is our high touch agency, where we focus primarily on senior director level and executive searches for SMBs for small, medium sized businesses and startups looking to, to go from sort of bootstrap to Series B. So we focus on the small business market, mainly, talent that's interested in startups, the roles that we work on are, are very diverse, we always say that, like, you know, we'll be as selective as, as, as our clients. And the main thing is that the role has to be hard to fill as to be very niche, right? Like if the, if our clients can do it on their own, we're just not, it's just, you know, we kind of let them do it on their own and say, Hey, like, you know, we're gonna scour the market and make sure that you get the best person which comes back to like, what I wanted to create when I started this, which was, you know, we run basically on one KPI which is repeat business, I found that a lot of other agencies and why I kind of wanted to almost, you know, quit the space was it was very much, you know, throwing spaghetti at the wall. That's a term that a lot of companies use that they're like, this is why we don't like working with recruiters. It was very, like, quantity over quality. I mean, you know, it's to no recruiters fault necessarily, it's people are drip are incentivized by these like high quality high quantity you know, outreaches so, you know, our focus is just really like high quality engagements and repeat business and then we do we created after about, you know, five years of being in business, what we found is that a lot of our customers graduated from us so they would hire you know, engineers, sales and, you know, Customer Success staff or their, you know, do CTO and once they hit about 50 people, they would start bringing in recruiters right because they would say hey, you know, we're getting to this size we've got you know, a lot more money we're invulnerable sleazy for for these niche roles, but we're gonna use recruiters and then to the recruiters all the time and they would say, you know, hey, we're using like LinkedIn. And we're using like other tools that are out there. And Dede was not driving back great quality results, they are that quantity game, right. So a lot of time is spent going through applications, and sitting in unfit interviews. And it's a poor waste of not only recruiter that wants to excel in their career, I mean, you want to be having great conversations. And so what we wanted to do is create a very niche, you know, marketplace of high potential pre vetted, exclusive talent, where they could post a role to the people that they actually want to interview, not the whole world. And that's how hired hippo came to be. And so we've do the same industry, you know, full time, sales, marketing, customer success. In the app, we don't focus on tech, actually. So it's more non tech roles, customer facing roles on the text on on our on our app, and that sort of long story short,
Leighann Lovely 11:09
right? So do the the, do the candidates come to you? Or are you out there sourcing them? And then introducing them to your app?
Adam Gellert 11:21
Yeah, great question. So we, like a recruiting agency, we go after high potential passive talent, right? And we say to them, like, look, we're going to identify what's really important to you in terms of your next salary, your you know, how close are you to your house? Or is it remote in office hybrid? You know, what are the alignment factors that are super important for you to be successful, happy and stay at a job for a really long time, we have a 95% retention rate of candidates that stay here and beyond, just within the app, where companies and candidates are connecting directly to each other. And it's because we do that due diligence into alignment and weighed certain questions and answers together to form like a really good match. And so we do go out and, you know, market to and, and, and talk to candidates, and most of the candidates that we talked to are not actively looking for new role, they're not going to apply through LinkedIn. And indeed, they may or may not answer a LinkedIn request, they may or may not get a referral. You know, they're, they're, you know, content, but they're open to potentially a new opportunity, maybe not now, maybe down the line. And so we have sort of, like that recruiter pool available to our customers
Leighann Lovely 12:50
interesting. And that's, you know, you get to a certain level of your career, where, you know, you're you are happy, but there's certain you max out, you hit the ceiling, right, where, you know, I've been now at this company for 10 years, you at a certain level, and there are certain individuals who they really that that's like the time limit of you expect them to be at this company for 10 years, they've done everything they can possibly do. So that's a perfect place for them to be able to say, Okay, now I've, I've fixed all the problems at this company. Now, I'm basically just kind of sitting here doing and at a certain level, you know, those individuals then move on to fix the next company. And you see that sometimes in CEOs CFOs, you know, those high level C suite type, you know, positions, or whether that be a, you know, a director of sales who their, their specific, I guess, role is to go in and fix the sales department and get them up and operating. And then they move on to another role where they go in and they specialize in fixing. And that would be like, the perfect type of app for them. Because yeah, hey, I'm not ready to move now. But I might be ready in two or three years. And if those are really niche, or really high level positions, I would want my information out there so that I'm constantly like, hey, if I am a match to a company that could be looking and then another one to two years, then yeah, look at my information and tell me if I'm the could be, you know, it's it's it's great transparency on both sides. But it's also letting people know, like, here's here's the thing, I don't I don't want to put my resume on indeed or those other places because I don't want to get slammed and and I recently went through this where all of a sudden, I'm getting slammed with all these people who are like, Hey, are you looking for a job here? Are you looking for a job? And I got like 30 requests for jobs that one I would never in a million years be interested in and to wear and not to sound like I'm boasting about myself. We're way beneath me. Again, you smile. But yeah, that I mean, it sounds like it's a great, a great app, a great way to connect people of a certain skill level or a certain position with companies who are looking for very specific people.
Adam Gellert 15:22
Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, you hit so many great points there. You know, jobs are really just business problems that need to be solved. And like you said, sometimes you are in to solve that. No one project or, you know, you did so well, that, and you keep doing so well, that you kind of, you know, put yourself out of out of a role and a lot of people approach us in those in those scenarios that want to start looking before or, you know, the company is about to exit. You know, there's there's hundreds of scenarios, right, it all comes down to alignment. And like Reed Hoffman from LinkedIn says it's about a tour of duty. Right. So, you know, we, I do talk a lot about like you do three years, like, it depends on the environment, what's happening, right, like, there's so many intangibles, but, you know, three years would be a good time to, you know, have the ability to make some really good impact. You could be at a place for 1015 years and continue to grow. But it's, that's not always the case. Right? So I mean, most people change jobs every 18 months, was like the last stat that I read, right? And so what we find is that there's a lot of great people that, you know, are, you know, open and ready, and the pain for them is that they have to go look on job boards, they have to look at applying, and then they have to like, you know, message the hiring manager on LinkedIn to stand out or get a referral. And now everybody's doing that, right. So that's just not the best way to stand out. Because everyone's messaging, the hiring manager, everyone's sending, you know, a cake with your name on it, right? Like it's not, it's not something completely different than then, you know, when you were the first or second person to do that. So what we find is that look, recruitment, the recruitment process sucks for both companies and candidates. It's a very lengthy time consuming process for candidates, and you could make the wrong career choice or career trajectory. Because you're not thinking about, you know, do I want to be five minutes goes to my house, do I want to be remote? Do I want to be in office and hear other people on the phone? Because that's where I'm at, in my current life? Maybe? You know, maybe I just had a kid and I want to be at home like, there. Everyone's different, right? No, two people are the same. No two work environments are exactly the same. And we found that by just digging in, this is like, 20 years worth of research on, you know, what's a really high quality match, and we don't get it right 100% of the time, but we like to think we get it right close to that. Right. So figuring out what motivates candidates to make a career move, are they making the right decision and just show them those roles, will eliminate all a lot of the pain that you talked about? Which is, you know, I might have to always consistently think about my next career move. What if there was this product that was thinking about that for me? And I don't have to talk to 100 recruiters, I don't have to wait till it's too late. That kind of thing.
Leighann Lovely 18:31
Right? Right. And that's, and that is the problem, when you do get to a certain level that if all of a sudden you don't have a job, it takes time, because there are not, you know, like a, like a general laborer position, when you've got 30 positions open down the street, there, there's not that many sea level positions that that are right for you just waiting for you to step into. I mean, there's a finite amount. And I have worked and I'm sure you've worked with, when, you know, all of the sudden you see, you know, a CEO, or a director of change management or some weird, weird role, that you're like, Okay, what exactly do you do? That person will sometimes end up unemployed for months, a year. I have, I'm working with somebody who has been unemployed now for a year and a half. Because he's, he just doesn't want to relocate again. And right now, where he's located, there aren't any positions that suit him. Especially at his 140k salary.
Adam Gellert 19:50
Yeah. So yeah, I mean, here's the thing that I'm you know, I'm gonna say that, you know, I don't think everyone's gonna be happy with like, people. We really shouldn't be out of a job, and it's not their fault, it's that we haven't set people up for success. So I don't want to put the blame on anyone and I, you know, feel awful when someone has been knocked down, you know, hundreds of times for a year and a half, that's like the worst thing that I would ever want to see. And this is what keeps me in recruiting because, you know, I really believe that everyone should wake up fulfilled in, you know, when they go to work and fulfilled when they go home at the end of the day and happy with what they're doing, but employed in something and not have to, you know, try and find a job for a year and a half. But you know, you're you're right, again, it's, it's, there are more jobs than there are people, right. And so, there, we just haven't put people in a position to be able to, you know, change career paths at the right time and the right angle, right. I don't think enough employers let people go and flourish when they need to, like some of the I know, a lot of people don't like firing and letting people go, but it's about being a very savant leader. And, you know, really being empathetic and understanding where people are in their career and where they could go are foreseeing that, you know, maybe this particular industry or this nice industry is, you know, going to be super tough, we're going to be oversaturated, right. And so, think all the way from the education system to, you know, recruiting and beyond. And, you know, how we, you know, are empathetic in terms of outplacement, like, we need to help people get and figure out early, you know, if they're in the right position to do the right roles, and then, you know, kind of be set on that proper trajectory. So I could go on to more detail, but that's sort of like the broad scope.
Leighann Lovely 21:59
Right. So let's shift gears here for a second. Like we mentioned, you've been, you've been a founder, a co founder of multiple businesses, like you mentioned, through that process, you've obviously learned, you know, a ton, I'm gonna guess, you know, from the first business that you, you know, helped found or founded. Something like that. I'm gonna guess that you have learned a great deal. And obviously, the economy has changed so much over I mean, going through 2000, you know, AIDS going through the pandemic, what, what has been, other than the demand for a change in candidate experience? What has been the the glaring, you know, like, red light blinking in your face of like, this really needs to change?
Adam Gellert 23:02
Yeah, definitely, we've been sort of like rocked the last several years. Right. So I mean, I started my company after recruiting for another company, in the 2008 financial crisis, right. And so, there's a lot that I've kind of, like learned by essentially just being sort of like crazy, determined. And, you know, following my passion and skill combination, it can't just be passionate. It can't just be skill, right? Because you are going to face adversity. And you need to figure out how to continue on, I think, guilt, that's sort of important when people are thinking about those career choices over the last few years. I think the more obvious ones are remote work, flexible work schedules, and like getting more away from the hustle culture. Right. But I think, what's happened, and I think what's happened, that's good. And it kind of ties into my comment about being able to get employed and into a place where you feel fulfilled at the end of the day. And I think that it's less obvious, maybe becoming more obvious, is the idea that we're going to move into this multi career system. have been talking about this for a few years, but I think it's becoming more and more obvious that you know, what we consider maybe side hustles people that have multiple income streams, is kind of the future, right? So, you know, the obvious scenario is Uber, an Uber driver, and working at a tech company, right. But I, you know, that makes people think, oh, this person must work 60 hours a week or 80 hours a week, right? But what I really see is like with the introduction of AI, you can actually be a lot more productive and efficient in your job and You know, if you become sort of, you know, irreplaceable in the fact that you're like the master of your, your job or your function and solving that business problem of where you're working, that you will be able, you'll be able to be a lot more efficient. And you know, two days, three days a week, right, which is why we're seeing these things. And if you want to increase your, you know, ability to make money, it could be doing Uber driving, you'd still stick to that, like 40 hours a week, or whatever it is, or content creation, or, you know, helping at a, you know, food bank or, you know, hospital or, you know, hospice care, whatever it is, right. There's just so many opportunities, I think, to work, and I don't think income is going to come from one place, I think that'll be very unlikely to happen.
Leighann Lovely 25:57
And do you think that's, that's a cultural shift? Or do you think it's a generational thing?
Adam Gellert 26:08
I think it's a bit of both. I also think it's a fact of survival, survival, it's like things just cost more, you know, when we used to, so the most obvious example that I think is that, you know, the generation before you said, generational, so the generation before us, you know, was in their job for life, right, and they don't understand why you would go follow your passion or follow your, you know, a different career path, right. And we lived in this sort of, like, unknown is that a good play? Is that not a good play, and, right now, there are no 40 year jobs left, or will be in the future, it's unlikely, because things change so fast that, you know, even founders, for example, right, you might be a good founder to take it from concept and assumption and Bootstrap to a million dollars, but you're not the right person, take it from a million to 10 million, because you don't have that experience. And so you have to step away. And so it's not just, you know, the, you know, what we might consider other roles, it's like roles across the board, right? Even athletes, right, you're just at a certain stage, and that's what you're good for that position you play. So you know, from, from this big shift in how we work in work tech, and the whole scale up of AI in our industry, it's just a matter of, you know, how we have to re think and reimagine what work looks like, and how we spend our day, you you
Leighann Lovely 27:41
said something so, so absolutely brilliant, right there. Because it's a concept that is so hard for so many individuals to wrap their head around. And you made reference to, you know, as a founder, as a founder, you may be really good at starting up organizations and taking that from, you know, zero to a million, and you talk to, you know, again, go hire a coach, they'll teach you how to take it from a million beyond Well, that may not be what you're capable of doing. That meant, and you said, as if one of you may have to step away and sell it or handed off, right. And the concept that it's so hard for some of the and I'm not picking on because again, you're not you weren't picking on like the older school, the the older generation, they got a job, they stayed at that job. It was that was what they did. That was that was their mentality. And the concept that they struggle with is you can have a great person, but if that great person doesn't have the right seat on the bus, it no matter what you try to tell them to do, it's not going to work, right? It just they're not, they're not going to be able to wrap their head around, like how do I do this? Because their mindset, their passion, their, you know, knowledge, their technical ability falls within a different realm. And that is, I think, why we, as a society now see so many people doing the, okay, I'm going to stay here for five years. You see this in the hospitality industry. And I did not know this until I actually had interviewed somebody who who was from the hospitality industry. They see a lot of turnover they see it especially in the higher up because they come in, they create their concept of here's what's really going to make this hotel, this brand of the hotel, great. They go in, they implement all of their changes. They're there for you know, a finite period of time they move on, and they go to the next one and they implement what works or what they have historically seen work. And there's plenty of industries out there that do that. And that's why we see people come and go in industries, which didn't happen in the past. But that's the way the world works now versus 4060 years ago, where things weren't changing, like you mentioned, technology is changing so much, that in order for companies to keep up and I know I talk with my hands This is Audio Only, anyways. Technology is changing so much that accompany has to have the person that's leading it understand where that technology is. And sometimes that means that changing that person every five years, who is aware of what that technology, what that economical environment looks like, in order for that company to continue to thrive and make that company continue to grow and work. And I think that it's necessary in our environment where, like I said, 4060 years ago, it wasn't, because while we still had changes happening, technology was not nearly as an again, manufacturing, I come from much more of a manufacturing, staffing. You know, we still to this day, talk about while manufacturing is so far behind. Even today, even on the practices that they do, you know, in a lot of the things, you know, you still walk in and they're still in this is just, you know, example, while they're still taking all hand notes, they're still you know, what, they're machines, everything is still on paper, why do you have these big stacks of paper that explain the job that you're working on? Why don't you have iPads or, or something that connects to your, you know, your systems, your ERP systems? It's like, how are you not to that point yet? But you know, and then you ask the leaders, and they're like, Well wouldn't work for us? And it's like, well, have you tried? Have you looked into the systems, or just, it would not work here, and then you you talk to the person and they're like, Well, I've been at this company for 45 years, it wouldn't work here. We'll get some fresh blood in here. And I guarantee somebody who is, you know, young, hungry to make their mark would figure out a way to make it work.
Adam Gellert 32:41
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, to that point, like, also don't feel like it's, you know, a lot of people's faults, like things just didn't change fast, right? Previously, so they didn't have to change and people hate, you know, standing up in front of a crowd, but they all say change, too, right? So, you know, if there's something that they believe to be working, they won't change or don't see, right. So it's like, it's not even like individuals, like there are so many examples of this happening with like, you know, some of the smartest people in the world, right, so like, you know, Blockbuster, like, they just didn't see that change, they didn't do it. You know, that wasn't the person operating the manufacturer to build the DVDs or, you know, do the graphic design, it's, it's really hard to understand what is happening in the future. But I think there are two things that the next generation really needs to focus on its financial independence and financial, like education and understanding. And, you know, what, where careers are headed and where careers are going and how you can kind of make an impact because it was okay to work, you know, a job for so many years before, because there were only so many jobs rolling so many options, you couldn't go, you know, work remotely from your house in Canada, and then do a job in the states you couldn't, there weren't as many coffee shops, there was like five, right? So you couldn't go learn from a different set of leaders or a different set of peoples or get benefits from a company like Starbucks, there just weren't those choices. And because choices and options, there's, you know, all pretty well endless at this point. Which, you know, I think the most important thing for coaches to do is to help people kind of help identify, you know, where could you, you know, excel in another area, instead of being sort of like one of many, you're kind of like a master of one and figuring out how you go through that. Those those kinds of paths to get there. So, yeah, it's just it's a it's I think it's just that the fluctuation and the speed at which things change. Right, like so. Yeah, just trying to come up with a new kid. Like, for example, maybe I'll come back to it but
Leighann Lovely 34:58
ya know, I mean, that was write that. And I completely agree, but here, I'm gonna throw this, I'm gonna throw you for a loop now on something because as we talk about the younger generation and educating themselves, and that kind of thing I want to ask you, you know, again, this is going to kind of throw you for a loop on everything now, because we've now we've now learned, you know, that, you know, the experience, the, the understanding of that, within going into these jobs, we've, we've started to understand more and more that the cultural fit within organizations as well the important and that person, you know, we, right, we've started to get that culture, and a person fitting into their environment, and it can look a wild, lot wildly different. And you when you said education, and educating themselves, it sparked something in me, do you? Maybe you know, what I'm gonna ask, do you think that companies are finally starting to understand that having a degree specific and this excludes some industries, obviously, you cannot be a doctor without a going to medical school, you can't be an accountant, or a CPA, if you don't go and get your CPE can't be a lawyer, blah, blah, you get it? But do you think that more industries have come to understand that experience, hands on experience is equivalent to educational experience, and that culture fit is more important than experience because you can train for skills?
Adam Gellert 36:38
100% 100% 100% 100% it's, you know, attitude over skills, its experiences, you know, it takes 10,000 plus hours to be any good and even close to good at something. So, you know, I tell young people, they're like, oh, what should I do? Where should I start, just try doing things and do so many things that, you know, assault, go solve problems and figure it out and feel like, what, what are you like, really the best app because people are coming to you, if you're the best at something, and you're experienced at it. I mean, even doctors, you know, once they get the job, and they've hit a certain level of experience, they don't go back to them and say, hey, you know, you graduated top of your class, they go no, like, I want to work with the surgeon that did 1000 heart surgeries, not this one surgeon that, you know, went to Harvard. Right. So it doesn't even, you know, yeah, school is required for obviously, certain jobs, but, you know, most of them are required and talking about the speed at which things move. I mean, there's so many ways to get educated for free, right now, if you have access to a laptop, and, you know, internet, which a lot of people also don't have, which, you know, I really believe in, in charities that, you know, help people get laptops and access to internet, because that's, that's where education, you know, it's access, right. And for diversity, and, you know, pay parity, it's like getting that access, right. So, but, but, you know, going off a little bit, but I think that, you know, the most important thing is to just really, like educate yourself on what you like, and keep trying new things, right. So
Leighann Lovely 38:28
well, in today's world, you can go into coffee shops, and have free internet. Excuse me, you can go into, you know, here in I know, in, you know, in most in most of the states, I'm not 100% sure about Canada, but any public library has computers that you can now go in and utilize their computers to free at free and have internet access. So I mean, there is an any Workforce Development Company, you know, place so there are, you know, kiosks that you can go into a workforce development, and those are, you know, government run here in the United States where you can ask for assistance to get free internet access, you just have to want to do it and have the time. So they don't I mean, it's, it's really are you willing to put in the time, so there is a million free different places that you can go to get access? And then I mean, there is LinkedIn offers, you know, free webinars and courses and I mean, there is 1,000,001 different ways that you can now educate yourself
Adam Gellert 39:47
for free Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, one of the funny things is like, you know, in job description, they say, Hey, this is this is required. I mean, there are these these these things that are required that anyone can get caught. have access to and actually really get really, really good at. You know, one example is going in a sales role as example HubSpot is, you know, a customer relationship management platform, it's probably the one of the most popular in the world other than Salesforce. And so, you know, it's funny to me, how many times founders or hiring managers asked me hey, like, we won't talk to somebody, unless they have experience with HubSpot. I mean, you give somebody a crash course. And then in a day and an hour and have them be amazing. And the candidates also are, you know, if you are seeing these jobs, and you're saying, Oh, I don't have experience with that, I mean, you could pretty much get experience with anything by just going and asking going to a company and saying, Hey, like, I'd really like to learn about this. HubSpot has, you know, the biggest amount of videos and blogs on how to use their product, if you reached out to them and said, Hey, I want to get a job, you know, we're using your product is required. Can you help me with this? I'm sure they would say yes. Right. So it's just about creating those, and pushing those opportunities for what you want. So if you, you know, are in a role right now, where you're feeling stuck, because you don't have experience with something else that's required. You know, as long as it's not a degree, and it doesn't cost you money, and there are certain barriers to entry. Of course, like, there are certain, you know, I don't want to say that there are limitations at all. But, you know, for the most part, you know, with those things, you could get educated on that. Right,
Leighann Lovely 41:27
right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's, there's so much available to, to individuals out there now. And I, I'm gonna go back to a point that you made earlier that, that there are more jobs than there are people, which means that anybody who is not working right now, and I mean, they shouldn't be, but the system that we have in place is broken. And it makes it hard for people to get hired. So individuals, like you, who are attempting to create systems, you know, are the ones who are really, you know, the, the pioneers in this in this industry, right, trying to find a way to make the candidate experience positive, and make the make it easier for the company to, you know, allow the proper resumes to come across their desk, you know, to just view the ones that are right for their role. I mean, so let me ask you this, when you started in this industry, did you think that you were going to end up two decades in?
Adam Gellert 43:02
No, definitely not. I didn't even know where recruiting was. Right. So someone, you know, offered me a job. And I was like, What the heck is recruiting? And they said, you know, you, you get paid to, you know, match a person with a company, right? I was like, Oh, this sounds interesting. Do you think I'll be good at it? And they said, Yeah, so somebody had to give me that opportunity. Right. They knew they'd worked with me previously. So they knew that I had a good attitude. Good. Great. I showed up. I care, right. So like, what I typically look for is trust, attitude, passion. I think that's kind of like the core of any role doesn't matter what it is where it is, you know, or anything, right. And, and so yeah, I mean, just to answer your question, simply, I don't, I didn't know. But I just became obsessed with, you know, solving this problem, and just continuing to do better and continuing to be curious and think about things. And ask questions. And, you know, I don't have all the answers still, right. Like, I still learn from a lot of people like you and other people, right? have, you know, different scenarios that come up? And I think that that's what makes this industry and an industry that you care about? So interesting, right? So, but it could be applied to anything, you know, skilled trades, anything, getting curious, you know, you could you know, you could create a house or you could create a whole residential community. Like, there's just so many different options, right, so
Leighann Lovely 44:35
awesome. So I'm gonna ask you the question of the season. What do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Adam Gellert 44:47
Yeah, I think like, my mind goes to that one thing that I talked about before, which is the double career system. I think that's where people will say, Okay, this is What changed, most people had one job, one sort of like residents, and now people are going and having multiple, because I just think that that's the way that the world is moving towards. And, you know, and what's required. And I think the flexibility of get a technology is going to be able to do most of what you can do, which should essentially free up a lot of time, you're going to have time to pursue a passion project, a skills project, money making project. So that that's what I think
Leighann Lovely 45:38
that's awesome. And I agree. I think the world was snapped awake. I just I feel like that. As much as we were all divided, and, you know, stuck at home, I feel like everybody woke up and started talking, and started communicating in a way that they never had before. More so than, you know, people were like, well, I'm me, I started a new relationship with my own brother that I had never had before. I started talking to him more. But he lives in Seattle, because all of the sudden I'm like, Oh, my God, I can zoom with him and his family. So I feel like the world was snapped awake. And unfortunately, a lot of things came to light that were not so positive and positive. A lot of mental health issues. And a lot of the world was snapped awake. And people found hobbies, they found passion projects, they found that kind of stuff. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Adam Gellert 46:43
Yeah, thanks so much. I think LinkedIn is is, you know, is the best place if you want to follow me there connect with me there. So it's Adam Geller, and I run Linkous group and the hired hippo. And so that would be like the number one place. I mean, obviously, I'm on all the other socials just about to release a personal site, recruiter adam.com. So those two places would be ideal.
Leighann Lovely 47:12
Excellent. And that'll be in the show notes. So if you want to reach out to Adam, you can check the show notes for his LinkedIn, or for his personal site that will, will listen on there as well. So Adam, thank you so much for joining me and having this conversation. It's been an absolute pleasure, pleasure and some really great insight and great information.
Adam Gellert 47:33
Awesome. Thanks very much for having me. This was a lot of fun. So thank you.
Leighann Lovely 47:38
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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Wednesday Oct 11, 2023
Wednesday Oct 11, 2023
Adam Gellert serial entrepreneur and lifer in the staffing industry joins me for a very enlighten conversation about the future of staffing and the workforce as we know it. Adam now the Founder and CEO of HireHippo and The Linkus Group Inc. permanent placement firms that take a different approach to hiring individuals. As he has moved through his career, he saw gaps in the market and have shifted to fill those gaps. Now offering a network of top talent of passive candidates, eliminating resume reviews and focusing on skills and culture. Join this amazing conversation with a forward-thinking entrepreneur.
Contact Adam -
LinkedIN - https://www.linkedin.com/in/adamgellert/
Websites –
Recruiteradam.com
hiredhippo.ai
linkushr.com
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann lovely. Let's get this conversation started.
Leighann Lovely 01:09
Adam Gellert is on a mission to build the greatest marketplace of pre vetted diverse high potential candidates and companies, reshaping the job application process with candidate experience and helping companies hire their most passionate teammates from one to 250. He eats, sleeps and breathes recruitment. He can talk for hours about anything to do with growth of an organization from a people standpoint, attraction, retention, culture fit alignment and best practices in the modern world. He's an entrepreneur at heart currently on a mission to reshape recruitment and change the candidate experience. Founder and CEO at hire hippo, a hiring marketplace connecting pre vetted high potential diverse candidates and companies based on mutual interest like a dating app and saying goodbye to resumes. He noticed a gap in the industry as a founder of Linksys group, a recruitment firm supporting startups and SMBs in Canada and US. His typical clients is under 50 people. He started the company with the intent to disrupt the recruitment industry. And they are doing just that he has a fantastic team. And they work very hard to build championship teams for their clients that can sustain a winning outlook again and again since 2002. He has been instrumental in building teams both at the corporate and recruitment agency levels. He is known for building strong relationships with clients as an honest, driven and progressive individual with major organizations across Canada and the United States. With a passion for delivering cost savings and efficient business results. He took the next step in offering clients an alternative to traditional hiring. He's active in the tech startup and small business community co created the talent help list co created the disrupt HR Vaughn and previous chair, hR p a PD dinner committee, their leading KPI, it's their reoccurring clients a testament to the value they bring. I am very excited to talk to Adam, a serial entrepreneur. Adam, welcome. I am excited to talk with you today. Thank you for joining me.
Adam Gellert 03:36
Thank you very much for having me. Appreciate being here.
Leighann Lovely 03:40
Yeah. So why don't you start off and, you know, tell everybody a little bit, you know, a little background about who you are and what you do.
Adam Gellert 03:48
Yeah, so I'm Adam Gellert, the founder of the linkage group, and higher tempo. Essentially, I run both a high touch recruiting agency as well as a recruitment technology that we will, that we believe will change the face of how people get hired and how companies hire their high performers. Essentially, what the tech does is works with SMBs and startups that go from one to 250 people on getting quick access to exclusive high potential pre vetted talent without having to worry about recruiting the recruiting process, they can skip the entire recruitment process and go straight to interview because we do all that upfront work for them with the technology so that's what I'm doing now also involved, co founded the talent helpless, which was a COVID layoff list. It was like the first of its kind that I'm aware of anyways, and disrupt HR Vaughn, which is global HR disrupt, disrupt as a global HR brand. So I'm just obsessed and very involved in the recruitment process that I have been for the last two decades, essentially. You know, we can talk about anything to do with attraction, hiring, retention, and that's just a bit about me.
Leighann Lovely 05:20
Awesome. Yeah, you are. You're a serial entrepreneur, you've been in the industry of staffing in one way or another for the last two decades. That is, that's amazing. So, you know, I say that, once you're in the staffing industry, you're either a lifer, or you run like how the other way after a couple of years because you can't handle the stress. So you're clearly a lifer in the staffing industry, which is, which is awesome, because it's, it definitely grabs hold of you, doesn't it?
Adam Gellert 05:53
Oh, yeah. I like pain. I like pain.
Leighann Lovely 05:58
Right? That's that? Yep. Absolutely.
Adam Gellert 06:01
Yeah, I find that like, you know, just based on, you know, what you said, I It's so true, right? Like most people, it's the, you know, industry that most people just I don't like it when, you know, people won't not necessarily don't like but you know, a lot of people say Hey, should I get into recruiting because I like people or like connecting people. And it's not just, you know, it's very surface level expectation of the industry and the role, it's extremely hard. You know, it can be life sucking at times that can be very thankless, and you just have to have a like, really big passion for developing really strong connections in, in the work environment, making sure that it's a long term game with long term people. And that, you know, essentially, like you can, you can, you know, roll with very hard scenarios and, you know, still love connecting people that can accelerate their career and companies that can, you know, hire their top performers that go on to really, really great things. That's the key. It's a business strategy over a people strategy.
Leighann Lovely 07:16
So tell me about Linksys because you said that this is a tech, it's technology connecting people. What type of recruitment is this? Is it? Is it on the general labor? Is it high level individuals explain what that app or that technology does?
Adam Gellert 07:37
Yeah, that's, that's a fair question. So Linkous is our high touch agency, where we focus primarily on senior director level and executive searches for SMBs for small, medium sized businesses and startups looking to, to go from sort of bootstrap to Series B. So we focus on the small business market, mainly, talent that's interested in startups, the roles that we work on are, are very diverse, we always say that, like, you know, we'll be as selective as, as, as our clients. And the main thing is that the role has to be hard to fill as to be very niche, right? Like if the, if our clients can do it on their own, we're just not, it's just, you know, we kind of let them do it on their own and say, Hey, like, you know, we're gonna scour the market and make sure that you get the best person which comes back to like, what I wanted to create when I started this, which was, you know, we run basically on one KPI which is repeat business, I found that a lot of other agencies and why I kind of wanted to almost, you know, quit the space was it was very much, you know, throwing spaghetti at the wall. That's a term that a lot of companies use that they're like, this is why we don't like working with recruiters. It was very, like, quantity over quality. I mean, you know, it's to no recruiters fault necessarily, it's people are drip are incentivized by these like high quality high quantity you know, outreaches so, you know, our focus is just really like high quality engagements and repeat business and then we do we created after about, you know, five years of being in business, what we found is that a lot of our customers graduated from us so they would hire you know, engineers, sales and, you know, Customer Success staff or their, you know, do CTO and once they hit about 50 people, they would start bringing in recruiters right because they would say hey, you know, we're getting to this size we've got you know, a lot more money we're invulnerable sleazy for for these niche roles, but we're gonna use recruiters and then to the recruiters all the time and they would say, you know, hey, we're using like LinkedIn. And we're using like other tools that are out there. And Dede was not driving back great quality results, they are that quantity game, right. So a lot of time is spent going through applications, and sitting in unfit interviews. And it's a poor waste of not only recruiter that wants to excel in their career, I mean, you want to be having great conversations. And so what we wanted to do is create a very niche, you know, marketplace of high potential pre vetted, exclusive talent, where they could post a role to the people that they actually want to interview, not the whole world. And that's how hired hippo came to be. And so we've do the same industry, you know, full time, sales, marketing, customer success. In the app, we don't focus on tech, actually. So it's more non tech roles, customer facing roles on the text on on our on our app, and that sort of long story short,
Leighann Lovely 11:09
right? So do the the, do the candidates come to you? Or are you out there sourcing them? And then introducing them to your app?
Adam Gellert 11:21
Yeah, great question. So we, like a recruiting agency, we go after high potential passive talent, right? And we say to them, like, look, we're going to identify what's really important to you in terms of your next salary, your you know, how close are you to your house? Or is it remote in office hybrid? You know, what are the alignment factors that are super important for you to be successful, happy and stay at a job for a really long time, we have a 95% retention rate of candidates that stay here and beyond, just within the app, where companies and candidates are connecting directly to each other. And it's because we do that due diligence into alignment and weighed certain questions and answers together to form like a really good match. And so we do go out and, you know, market to and, and, and talk to candidates, and most of the candidates that we talked to are not actively looking for new role, they're not going to apply through LinkedIn. And indeed, they may or may not answer a LinkedIn request, they may or may not get a referral. You know, they're, they're, you know, content, but they're open to potentially a new opportunity, maybe not now, maybe down the line. And so we have sort of, like that recruiter pool available to our customers
Leighann Lovely 12:50
interesting. And that's, you know, you get to a certain level of your career, where, you know, you're you are happy, but there's certain you max out, you hit the ceiling, right, where, you know, I've been now at this company for 10 years, you at a certain level, and there are certain individuals who they really that that's like the time limit of you expect them to be at this company for 10 years, they've done everything they can possibly do. So that's a perfect place for them to be able to say, Okay, now I've, I've fixed all the problems at this company. Now, I'm basically just kind of sitting here doing and at a certain level, you know, those individuals then move on to fix the next company. And you see that sometimes in CEOs CFOs, you know, those high level C suite type, you know, positions, or whether that be a, you know, a director of sales who their, their specific, I guess, role is to go in and fix the sales department and get them up and operating. And then they move on to another role where they go in and they specialize in fixing. And that would be like, the perfect type of app for them. Because yeah, hey, I'm not ready to move now. But I might be ready in two or three years. And if those are really niche, or really high level positions, I would want my information out there so that I'm constantly like, hey, if I am a match to a company that could be looking and then another one to two years, then yeah, look at my information and tell me if I'm the could be, you know, it's it's it's great transparency on both sides. But it's also letting people know, like, here's here's the thing, I don't I don't want to put my resume on indeed or those other places because I don't want to get slammed and and I recently went through this where all of a sudden, I'm getting slammed with all these people who are like, Hey, are you looking for a job here? Are you looking for a job? And I got like 30 requests for jobs that one I would never in a million years be interested in and to wear and not to sound like I'm boasting about myself. We're way beneath me. Again, you smile. But yeah, that I mean, it sounds like it's a great, a great app, a great way to connect people of a certain skill level or a certain position with companies who are looking for very specific people.
Adam Gellert 15:22
Yeah, that's exactly it. I mean, you hit so many great points there. You know, jobs are really just business problems that need to be solved. And like you said, sometimes you are in to solve that. No one project or, you know, you did so well, that, and you keep doing so well, that you kind of, you know, put yourself out of out of a role and a lot of people approach us in those in those scenarios that want to start looking before or, you know, the company is about to exit. You know, there's there's hundreds of scenarios, right, it all comes down to alignment. And like Reed Hoffman from LinkedIn says it's about a tour of duty. Right. So, you know, we, I do talk a lot about like you do three years, like, it depends on the environment, what's happening, right, like, there's so many intangibles, but, you know, three years would be a good time to, you know, have the ability to make some really good impact. You could be at a place for 1015 years and continue to grow. But it's, that's not always the case. Right? So I mean, most people change jobs every 18 months, was like the last stat that I read, right? And so what we find is that there's a lot of great people that, you know, are, you know, open and ready, and the pain for them is that they have to go look on job boards, they have to look at applying, and then they have to like, you know, message the hiring manager on LinkedIn to stand out or get a referral. And now everybody's doing that, right. So that's just not the best way to stand out. Because everyone's messaging, the hiring manager, everyone's sending, you know, a cake with your name on it, right? Like it's not, it's not something completely different than then, you know, when you were the first or second person to do that. So what we find is that look, recruitment, the recruitment process sucks for both companies and candidates. It's a very lengthy time consuming process for candidates, and you could make the wrong career choice or career trajectory. Because you're not thinking about, you know, do I want to be five minutes goes to my house, do I want to be remote? Do I want to be in office and hear other people on the phone? Because that's where I'm at, in my current life? Maybe? You know, maybe I just had a kid and I want to be at home like, there. Everyone's different, right? No, two people are the same. No two work environments are exactly the same. And we found that by just digging in, this is like, 20 years worth of research on, you know, what's a really high quality match, and we don't get it right 100% of the time, but we like to think we get it right close to that. Right. So figuring out what motivates candidates to make a career move, are they making the right decision and just show them those roles, will eliminate all a lot of the pain that you talked about? Which is, you know, I might have to always consistently think about my next career move. What if there was this product that was thinking about that for me? And I don't have to talk to 100 recruiters, I don't have to wait till it's too late. That kind of thing.
Leighann Lovely 18:31
Right? Right. And that's, and that is the problem, when you do get to a certain level that if all of a sudden you don't have a job, it takes time, because there are not, you know, like a, like a general laborer position, when you've got 30 positions open down the street, there, there's not that many sea level positions that that are right for you just waiting for you to step into. I mean, there's a finite amount. And I have worked and I'm sure you've worked with, when, you know, all of the sudden you see, you know, a CEO, or a director of change management or some weird, weird role, that you're like, Okay, what exactly do you do? That person will sometimes end up unemployed for months, a year. I have, I'm working with somebody who has been unemployed now for a year and a half. Because he's, he just doesn't want to relocate again. And right now, where he's located, there aren't any positions that suit him. Especially at his 140k salary.
Adam Gellert 19:50
Yeah. So yeah, I mean, here's the thing that I'm you know, I'm gonna say that, you know, I don't think everyone's gonna be happy with like, people. We really shouldn't be out of a job, and it's not their fault, it's that we haven't set people up for success. So I don't want to put the blame on anyone and I, you know, feel awful when someone has been knocked down, you know, hundreds of times for a year and a half, that's like the worst thing that I would ever want to see. And this is what keeps me in recruiting because, you know, I really believe that everyone should wake up fulfilled in, you know, when they go to work and fulfilled when they go home at the end of the day and happy with what they're doing, but employed in something and not have to, you know, try and find a job for a year and a half. But you know, you're you're right, again, it's, it's, there are more jobs than there are people, right. And so, there, we just haven't put people in a position to be able to, you know, change career paths at the right time and the right angle, right. I don't think enough employers let people go and flourish when they need to, like some of the I know, a lot of people don't like firing and letting people go, but it's about being a very savant leader. And, you know, really being empathetic and understanding where people are in their career and where they could go are foreseeing that, you know, maybe this particular industry or this nice industry is, you know, going to be super tough, we're going to be oversaturated, right. And so, think all the way from the education system to, you know, recruiting and beyond. And, you know, how we, you know, are empathetic in terms of outplacement, like, we need to help people get and figure out early, you know, if they're in the right position to do the right roles, and then, you know, kind of be set on that proper trajectory. So I could go on to more detail, but that's sort of like the broad scope.
Leighann Lovely 21:59
Right. So let's shift gears here for a second. Like we mentioned, you've been, you've been a founder, a co founder of multiple businesses, like you mentioned, through that process, you've obviously learned, you know, a ton, I'm gonna guess, you know, from the first business that you, you know, helped found or founded. Something like that. I'm gonna guess that you have learned a great deal. And obviously, the economy has changed so much over I mean, going through 2000, you know, AIDS going through the pandemic, what, what has been, other than the demand for a change in candidate experience? What has been the the glaring, you know, like, red light blinking in your face of like, this really needs to change?
Adam Gellert 23:02
Yeah, definitely, we've been sort of like rocked the last several years. Right. So I mean, I started my company after recruiting for another company, in the 2008 financial crisis, right. And so, there's a lot that I've kind of, like learned by essentially just being sort of like crazy, determined. And, you know, following my passion and skill combination, it can't just be passionate. It can't just be skill, right? Because you are going to face adversity. And you need to figure out how to continue on, I think, guilt, that's sort of important when people are thinking about those career choices over the last few years. I think the more obvious ones are remote work, flexible work schedules, and like getting more away from the hustle culture. Right. But I think, what's happened, and I think what's happened, that's good. And it kind of ties into my comment about being able to get employed and into a place where you feel fulfilled at the end of the day. And I think that it's less obvious, maybe becoming more obvious, is the idea that we're going to move into this multi career system. have been talking about this for a few years, but I think it's becoming more and more obvious that you know, what we consider maybe side hustles people that have multiple income streams, is kind of the future, right? So, you know, the obvious scenario is Uber, an Uber driver, and working at a tech company, right. But I, you know, that makes people think, oh, this person must work 60 hours a week or 80 hours a week, right? But what I really see is like with the introduction of AI, you can actually be a lot more productive and efficient in your job and You know, if you become sort of, you know, irreplaceable in the fact that you're like the master of your, your job or your function and solving that business problem of where you're working, that you will be able, you'll be able to be a lot more efficient. And you know, two days, three days a week, right, which is why we're seeing these things. And if you want to increase your, you know, ability to make money, it could be doing Uber driving, you'd still stick to that, like 40 hours a week, or whatever it is, or content creation, or, you know, helping at a, you know, food bank or, you know, hospital or, you know, hospice care, whatever it is, right. There's just so many opportunities, I think, to work, and I don't think income is going to come from one place, I think that'll be very unlikely to happen.
Leighann Lovely 25:57
And do you think that's, that's a cultural shift? Or do you think it's a generational thing?
Adam Gellert 26:08
I think it's a bit of both. I also think it's a fact of survival, survival, it's like things just cost more, you know, when we used to, so the most obvious example that I think is that, you know, the generation before you said, generational, so the generation before us, you know, was in their job for life, right, and they don't understand why you would go follow your passion or follow your, you know, a different career path, right. And we lived in this sort of, like, unknown is that a good play? Is that not a good play, and, right now, there are no 40 year jobs left, or will be in the future, it's unlikely, because things change so fast that, you know, even founders, for example, right, you might be a good founder to take it from concept and assumption and Bootstrap to a million dollars, but you're not the right person, take it from a million to 10 million, because you don't have that experience. And so you have to step away. And so it's not just, you know, the, you know, what we might consider other roles, it's like roles across the board, right? Even athletes, right, you're just at a certain stage, and that's what you're good for that position you play. So you know, from, from this big shift in how we work in work tech, and the whole scale up of AI in our industry, it's just a matter of, you know, how we have to re think and reimagine what work looks like, and how we spend our day, you you
Leighann Lovely 27:41
said something so, so absolutely brilliant, right there. Because it's a concept that is so hard for so many individuals to wrap their head around. And you made reference to, you know, as a founder, as a founder, you may be really good at starting up organizations and taking that from, you know, zero to a million, and you talk to, you know, again, go hire a coach, they'll teach you how to take it from a million beyond Well, that may not be what you're capable of doing. That meant, and you said, as if one of you may have to step away and sell it or handed off, right. And the concept that it's so hard for some of the and I'm not picking on because again, you're not you weren't picking on like the older school, the the older generation, they got a job, they stayed at that job. It was that was what they did. That was that was their mentality. And the concept that they struggle with is you can have a great person, but if that great person doesn't have the right seat on the bus, it no matter what you try to tell them to do, it's not going to work, right? It just they're not, they're not going to be able to wrap their head around, like how do I do this? Because their mindset, their passion, their, you know, knowledge, their technical ability falls within a different realm. And that is, I think, why we, as a society now see so many people doing the, okay, I'm going to stay here for five years. You see this in the hospitality industry. And I did not know this until I actually had interviewed somebody who who was from the hospitality industry. They see a lot of turnover they see it especially in the higher up because they come in, they create their concept of here's what's really going to make this hotel, this brand of the hotel, great. They go in, they implement all of their changes. They're there for you know, a finite period of time they move on, and they go to the next one and they implement what works or what they have historically seen work. And there's plenty of industries out there that do that. And that's why we see people come and go in industries, which didn't happen in the past. But that's the way the world works now versus 4060 years ago, where things weren't changing, like you mentioned, technology is changing so much, that in order for companies to keep up and I know I talk with my hands This is Audio Only, anyways. Technology is changing so much that accompany has to have the person that's leading it understand where that technology is. And sometimes that means that changing that person every five years, who is aware of what that technology, what that economical environment looks like, in order for that company to continue to thrive and make that company continue to grow and work. And I think that it's necessary in our environment where, like I said, 4060 years ago, it wasn't, because while we still had changes happening, technology was not nearly as an again, manufacturing, I come from much more of a manufacturing, staffing. You know, we still to this day, talk about while manufacturing is so far behind. Even today, even on the practices that they do, you know, in a lot of the things, you know, you still walk in and they're still in this is just, you know, example, while they're still taking all hand notes, they're still you know, what, they're machines, everything is still on paper, why do you have these big stacks of paper that explain the job that you're working on? Why don't you have iPads or, or something that connects to your, you know, your systems, your ERP systems? It's like, how are you not to that point yet? But you know, and then you ask the leaders, and they're like, Well wouldn't work for us? And it's like, well, have you tried? Have you looked into the systems, or just, it would not work here, and then you you talk to the person and they're like, Well, I've been at this company for 45 years, it wouldn't work here. We'll get some fresh blood in here. And I guarantee somebody who is, you know, young, hungry to make their mark would figure out a way to make it work.
Adam Gellert 32:41
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, to that point, like, also don't feel like it's, you know, a lot of people's faults, like things just didn't change fast, right? Previously, so they didn't have to change and people hate, you know, standing up in front of a crowd, but they all say change, too, right? So, you know, if there's something that they believe to be working, they won't change or don't see, right. So it's like, it's not even like individuals, like there are so many examples of this happening with like, you know, some of the smartest people in the world, right, so like, you know, Blockbuster, like, they just didn't see that change, they didn't do it. You know, that wasn't the person operating the manufacturer to build the DVDs or, you know, do the graphic design, it's, it's really hard to understand what is happening in the future. But I think there are two things that the next generation really needs to focus on its financial independence and financial, like education and understanding. And, you know, what, where careers are headed and where careers are going and how you can kind of make an impact because it was okay to work, you know, a job for so many years before, because there were only so many jobs rolling so many options, you couldn't go, you know, work remotely from your house in Canada, and then do a job in the states you couldn't, there weren't as many coffee shops, there was like five, right? So you couldn't go learn from a different set of leaders or a different set of peoples or get benefits from a company like Starbucks, there just weren't those choices. And because choices and options, there's, you know, all pretty well endless at this point. Which, you know, I think the most important thing for coaches to do is to help people kind of help identify, you know, where could you, you know, excel in another area, instead of being sort of like one of many, you're kind of like a master of one and figuring out how you go through that. Those those kinds of paths to get there. So, yeah, it's just it's a it's I think it's just that the fluctuation and the speed at which things change. Right, like so. Yeah, just trying to come up with a new kid. Like, for example, maybe I'll come back to it but
Leighann Lovely 34:58
ya know, I mean, that was write that. And I completely agree, but here, I'm gonna throw this, I'm gonna throw you for a loop now on something because as we talk about the younger generation and educating themselves, and that kind of thing I want to ask you, you know, again, this is going to kind of throw you for a loop on everything now, because we've now we've now learned, you know, that, you know, the experience, the, the understanding of that, within going into these jobs, we've, we've started to understand more and more that the cultural fit within organizations as well the important and that person, you know, we, right, we've started to get that culture, and a person fitting into their environment, and it can look a wild, lot wildly different. And you when you said education, and educating themselves, it sparked something in me, do you? Maybe you know, what I'm gonna ask, do you think that companies are finally starting to understand that having a degree specific and this excludes some industries, obviously, you cannot be a doctor without a going to medical school, you can't be an accountant, or a CPA, if you don't go and get your CPE can't be a lawyer, blah, blah, you get it? But do you think that more industries have come to understand that experience, hands on experience is equivalent to educational experience, and that culture fit is more important than experience because you can train for skills?
Adam Gellert 36:38
100% 100% 100% 100% it's, you know, attitude over skills, its experiences, you know, it takes 10,000 plus hours to be any good and even close to good at something. So, you know, I tell young people, they're like, oh, what should I do? Where should I start, just try doing things and do so many things that, you know, assault, go solve problems and figure it out and feel like, what, what are you like, really the best app because people are coming to you, if you're the best at something, and you're experienced at it. I mean, even doctors, you know, once they get the job, and they've hit a certain level of experience, they don't go back to them and say, hey, you know, you graduated top of your class, they go no, like, I want to work with the surgeon that did 1000 heart surgeries, not this one surgeon that, you know, went to Harvard. Right. So it doesn't even, you know, yeah, school is required for obviously, certain jobs, but, you know, most of them are required and talking about the speed at which things move. I mean, there's so many ways to get educated for free, right now, if you have access to a laptop, and, you know, internet, which a lot of people also don't have, which, you know, I really believe in, in charities that, you know, help people get laptops and access to internet, because that's, that's where education, you know, it's access, right. And for diversity, and, you know, pay parity, it's like getting that access, right. So, but, but, you know, going off a little bit, but I think that, you know, the most important thing is to just really, like educate yourself on what you like, and keep trying new things, right. So
Leighann Lovely 38:28
well, in today's world, you can go into coffee shops, and have free internet. Excuse me, you can go into, you know, here in I know, in, you know, in most in most of the states, I'm not 100% sure about Canada, but any public library has computers that you can now go in and utilize their computers to free at free and have internet access. So I mean, there is an any Workforce Development Company, you know, place so there are, you know, kiosks that you can go into a workforce development, and those are, you know, government run here in the United States where you can ask for assistance to get free internet access, you just have to want to do it and have the time. So they don't I mean, it's, it's really are you willing to put in the time, so there is a million free different places that you can go to get access? And then I mean, there is LinkedIn offers, you know, free webinars and courses and I mean, there is 1,000,001 different ways that you can now educate yourself
Adam Gellert 39:47
for free Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, one of the funny things is like, you know, in job description, they say, Hey, this is this is required. I mean, there are these these these things that are required that anyone can get caught. have access to and actually really get really, really good at. You know, one example is going in a sales role as example HubSpot is, you know, a customer relationship management platform, it's probably the one of the most popular in the world other than Salesforce. And so, you know, it's funny to me, how many times founders or hiring managers asked me hey, like, we won't talk to somebody, unless they have experience with HubSpot. I mean, you give somebody a crash course. And then in a day and an hour and have them be amazing. And the candidates also are, you know, if you are seeing these jobs, and you're saying, Oh, I don't have experience with that, I mean, you could pretty much get experience with anything by just going and asking going to a company and saying, Hey, like, I'd really like to learn about this. HubSpot has, you know, the biggest amount of videos and blogs on how to use their product, if you reached out to them and said, Hey, I want to get a job, you know, we're using your product is required. Can you help me with this? I'm sure they would say yes. Right. So it's just about creating those, and pushing those opportunities for what you want. So if you, you know, are in a role right now, where you're feeling stuck, because you don't have experience with something else that's required. You know, as long as it's not a degree, and it doesn't cost you money, and there are certain barriers to entry. Of course, like, there are certain, you know, I don't want to say that there are limitations at all. But, you know, for the most part, you know, with those things, you could get educated on that. Right,
Leighann Lovely 41:27
right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's, there's so much available to, to individuals out there now. And I, I'm gonna go back to a point that you made earlier that, that there are more jobs than there are people, which means that anybody who is not working right now, and I mean, they shouldn't be, but the system that we have in place is broken. And it makes it hard for people to get hired. So individuals, like you, who are attempting to create systems, you know, are the ones who are really, you know, the, the pioneers in this in this industry, right, trying to find a way to make the candidate experience positive, and make the make it easier for the company to, you know, allow the proper resumes to come across their desk, you know, to just view the ones that are right for their role. I mean, so let me ask you this, when you started in this industry, did you think that you were going to end up two decades in?
Adam Gellert 43:02
No, definitely not. I didn't even know where recruiting was. Right. So someone, you know, offered me a job. And I was like, What the heck is recruiting? And they said, you know, you, you get paid to, you know, match a person with a company, right? I was like, Oh, this sounds interesting. Do you think I'll be good at it? And they said, Yeah, so somebody had to give me that opportunity. Right. They knew they'd worked with me previously. So they knew that I had a good attitude. Good. Great. I showed up. I care, right. So like, what I typically look for is trust, attitude, passion. I think that's kind of like the core of any role doesn't matter what it is where it is, you know, or anything, right. And, and so yeah, I mean, just to answer your question, simply, I don't, I didn't know. But I just became obsessed with, you know, solving this problem, and just continuing to do better and continuing to be curious and think about things. And ask questions. And, you know, I don't have all the answers still, right. Like, I still learn from a lot of people like you and other people, right? have, you know, different scenarios that come up? And I think that that's what makes this industry and an industry that you care about? So interesting, right? So, but it could be applied to anything, you know, skilled trades, anything, getting curious, you know, you could you know, you could create a house or you could create a whole residential community. Like, there's just so many different options, right, so
Leighann Lovely 44:35
awesome. So I'm gonna ask you the question of the season. What do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Adam Gellert 44:47
Yeah, I think like, my mind goes to that one thing that I talked about before, which is the double career system. I think that's where people will say, Okay, this is What changed, most people had one job, one sort of like residents, and now people are going and having multiple, because I just think that that's the way that the world is moving towards. And, you know, and what's required. And I think the flexibility of get a technology is going to be able to do most of what you can do, which should essentially free up a lot of time, you're going to have time to pursue a passion project, a skills project, money making project. So that that's what I think
Leighann Lovely 45:38
that's awesome. And I agree. I think the world was snapped awake. I just I feel like that. As much as we were all divided, and, you know, stuck at home, I feel like everybody woke up and started talking, and started communicating in a way that they never had before. More so than, you know, people were like, well, I'm me, I started a new relationship with my own brother that I had never had before. I started talking to him more. But he lives in Seattle, because all of the sudden I'm like, Oh, my God, I can zoom with him and his family. So I feel like the world was snapped awake. And unfortunately, a lot of things came to light that were not so positive and positive. A lot of mental health issues. And a lot of the world was snapped awake. And people found hobbies, they found passion projects, they found that kind of stuff. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Adam Gellert 46:43
Yeah, thanks so much. I think LinkedIn is is, you know, is the best place if you want to follow me there connect with me there. So it's Adam Geller, and I run Linkous group and the hired hippo. And so that would be like the number one place. I mean, obviously, I'm on all the other socials just about to release a personal site, recruiter adam.com. So those two places would be ideal.
Leighann Lovely 47:12
Excellent. And that'll be in the show notes. So if you want to reach out to Adam, you can check the show notes for his LinkedIn, or for his personal site that will, will listen on there as well. So Adam, thank you so much for joining me and having this conversation. It's been an absolute pleasure, pleasure and some really great insight and great information.
Adam Gellert 47:33
Awesome. Thanks very much for having me. This was a lot of fun. So thank you.
Leighann Lovely 47:38
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, work, talk, company, change, role, candidates, great, industry, years, job, recruiters, hire, recruiting, linkedin, experience, recruitment, founder, passion, world
Wednesday Oct 04, 2023
Wednesday Oct 04, 2023
This brilliant guest has been recognized as top 30 under 30 and is a linked in top marketing, career management and HR voice with 12,000 plus followers reaching 2 million across 70 countries. Join this amazing conversation about, about a what candidates want and how we can improve candidate experience.
Contact – Matt
LinkedIN - linkedin.com/in/matt-parkin
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann lovely. Let's get this conversation started. My guest today, Matt Parkins, has been recognized as a top 30 under 30 and is a linked in top marketing, career management and HR voice with 12,000 plus followers reaching 2 million across 70 countries. He helps entrepreneurs and executives tell their story to grow their personal brands on LinkedIn and coaches ambitious professionals to reach their full potential. Matt is actively involved in the community as an entrepreneur mentor for the City of Toronto Small Business Center, and several university entrepreneur programs. His HR thought leadership has been featured in publications such as LinkedIn news and HR dot coms, talent acquisition, talent management and human experience excellence publications. Matt, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I am excited to talk with you.
Matt Parkin 02:08
Thanks. Hi, Leighann.
Leighann Lovely 02:09
So why don't you start off by telling the audience a little bit about yourself?
Matt Parkin 02:14
Yeah, so I broke into the HR space a few years ago, working in the HR consulting space, got to work on a lot of cool projects related to learning and development and equity, diversity and inclusion, as well as org design. But while I was there, I came across a cool HR technology startup, and thought it'd be cool to break into the HR technology space to continue helping HR leaders fall from the biggest challenges of today, specifically related to talent acquisition and recruiting. I know when I was a job seeker, I got very frustrated by the job application process. And having been a hiring manager and gone through hundreds and hundreds of resumes, I know how painful it is to go through that process. And so coming to work at a startup that is adjusting and changing the talent acquisition process to improve the candidate experience for candidates and make it more efficient for employers. Something that was really exciting for me, over the last couple of years, I've had thought leadership featured in hr.com. And been contributing and advising several different companies as well as industry association. So super passionate about the space and happy to connect today to share some learnings and research findings on how folks can improve the candidate experience and employer branding.
Leighann Lovely 03:32
That's awesome. And I love that you just mentioned that as the hiring manager. And as candidates, you know, we're frustrated with that. So pulling those two things together. You know, really, you're coming from, you know, point of view where you've had hands on experience with that. So you're able to now, you know, be an aside of really being a consultant to say, Okay, well, I experienced this and if I experienced this, that means that hundreds of 1000s of other people have to have experienced this and it is frustrating. It is frustrating, not only for the hiring managers, I'm sure. Well, I know. But also the candidates who, you know, want to find a job hiring managers, companies want to hire the people, right? And how do we easily put those two together in order to just make that process easier so that people aren't being lost? Resumes aren't being lost in the shuffle. And candidates aren't being turned off simply by the process of accompany without having a company spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars to overall you know overhaul their systems right so But it needs to be done. But how do you do it in a reasonably in a cost effective manner to you know, to improve these, you know, processes. So you you've been at, you know, helping an organization find it's called find work for what what about a year and a half, which is an awesome start up web based app that allows for easy matching of skill based, my understanding is that you're not showing hiring managers resumes, which I feel are kind of an antiquated way to match skills, let's let's talk about how that app actually works.
Matt Parkin 05:49
Yeah, so we find that typically, job seekers are used to going and going on to online job boards, and essentially spraying and praying right sending out hundreds of applications. And a lot of them are hearing back from employers on the employer side of things having to go and post a job and wait for people to apply go through hundreds, often unqualified resumes. And then when you finally go through all of them and reach out to qualified candidates, you've likely already missed them. And they're already on to new opportunities. And so you get caught in that middle where job seekers are complaining about not being able to find jobs. And then employers also can't find the talent. And so it's a bit of a disconnect there. And to your point about the resume piece, a lot of a lot of biases are presented in terms of resume writing and reviewing, right, you have folks who are able to afford talk to your resume writers, you have people that maybe don't have great written skills, or English skills, and so maybe their resume isn't written or conveying their skills in the best possible way. And then on the employer side of things, it's pretty time consuming when you open up a resume document, because a lot of times, they're not all formatted in the same way, though, it takes a couple seconds to actually get your bearings in the document and figure out, okay, where do I need to look to find the skills that I'm looking for. And that's at the end of the day, that's what you're looking for, you're looking for someone that has the skills you need to succeed in the role. And so what we did with the fine work platform is that we moved away from resumes to focus on skill based hiring, candidates can add the skills to their profile, and employers can quickly filter for profiles with those skills. And so it's a much easier way to skim profiles without having to read through resumes, of people saying, Hey, I'm a great communicator or work well in a team. It's like, okay, great, show me how you've done that. And so by being able to condense that screening process and that application process, we find that you're able to more efficiently create that human connection, because it's a more enjoyable process for the job seeker and the employer.
Leighann Lovely 07:53
That's amazing. Well, and here's so well, I guess before I asked that question, what what type of employment what type of candidates are? Or is this you know, app or this web based system geared towards?
Matt Parkin 08:12
So it's mainly been geared towards folks that are looking for hourly type of roles, so restaurants, retail stores, warehouses, event venues, hospitality companies, anyone that are looking for hourly employees, we've seen a lot of great success with because I think skill based hiring still has a little bit of a ways to go with more tenured complex roles. And you know, the engineering phase, for example, right, where you might actually need to know a little bit more than just someone's previous job title to see what they've been working on. Whereas for a lot of hourly roles, some employers are just struggling with people that are showing up, right to being able to find people that will actually show up and that have done the job before somewhere else or have transferable skills flip easier for those levels of roles for employers to be able to gauge the transferable skills.
Leighann Lovely 09:01
So my guess is that the majority of these individuals are not brilliant writer. And again, please don't take this as I'm not picking on anybody. But these, these individuals are not designed or they're, they're not brilliant resume writers. Most people are not brilliant resume writers, you typically do it every week. I'm hoping like every couple of years or every 10 Depending on how many you know, depending on how often you look for job and hopefully it's not extremely often you're not looking for a job so often, we hope, but you're not writing a resume constantly, which means that majority of these people don't write resumes on a regular basis. Which means that let's let's take out the stress of oh my gosh, I have to write this resume and Even me being a seasoned HR professional when I sit down and I have to update my resume, I'm like, Oh, my God, this is this is tedious. This is how do I describe what I was doing? And so eliminating that, I would assume is taking out so much of the stress from both sides. I mean, it just, it just makes so much sense. So let's talk about candidate experience. I mean, I can understand from the manager's point of view, and again, there's, before I get into that, I still run across hiring managers who insist on seeing a resume. And because they want to see gaps, they want to see if this individual has gaps in their employment, which I think in today's age, is becoming a little unfair because of the whole COVID. But let's talk about candidate experience. How is this improving? And how has it improved time to hire the way that candidates are being found and seen?
Matt Parkin 11:12
Yeah, so I've seen employers doing entire hiring cycles in three to four days, I've seen employers that are getting responses from candidates on the platform, within minutes. I actually use the platform once on behalf of one of our clients. And I set up a campaign I went away and had breakfast and came back and already had qualified candidates texted them to set up interviews that afternoon, and they were hired at the end of the week. And so think from a speed perspective, that's something that can really help reduce the ghosting in the candidate experience. And platform aside, when you're building out your talent acquisition process, I really encourage everyone to go and apply to your own job postings, as well as those of your competitors. Right, put yourself in the shoes of job seekers, and see how many steps they're going through. Right? Are there any questions that you're asking that, you know, maybe are more nice to haves, rather than need to knows that you can potentially save for the interview process? Right? I was applying to one job. And one of the checkboxes was can you confirm you're able to do the requirements of this job? Who's gonna say no, right? Nobody's gonna say no. And so that screening question adds no value for a hiring manager, because you can't filter anyone with the hat, because no one's gonna say no. And on the candidate side of things, that seems like a very frustrating question for them to spend the time reading and agreeing to. And so it's those kinds of things that you can pick up when you go through your own candidate experience. And I went through a random cashier job on a job posting platform one day, and I applied to the role. And I got a message of, you know, saying, Hey, thanks for your application. And they had me do a skill assessment, which I thought was kind of cool, because it was for a customer service facing role. And it gave me as a candidate the opportunity to try and showcase some of my knowledge and skills to get ahead of the competition. Right. And that's something that, you know, just answering some screening questions and sending in a resume doesn't always allow your skills to shine. So I was really impressed by that, by that skill base assessment. Now, after I completed that, I got an invitation to make an account in the employers applicant tracking system to submit my application. And I was confused, because I had already hit the Apply button on the job board, I had already completed the skills assessment. And now I needed to come and create another account and submit my application. And so I didn't do that, because I thought that was irritating. And I proceeded to get daily emails for the next three days, telling me how great this employer was to work for and reminding me to finish my application. I thought in that moment, you see a lot of drop off during the application process. If that employer instead of sending those reminder emails, if they had sent one email saying, Hey, we noticed you didn't finish your application. We must have dropped the ball on our candidate experience, do you mind sharing some feedback for us on where we went wrong and how we can improve? I've never seen an employer do that. I think as a candidate that would a either be like, Wow, I want to work for this person. They're very receptive to feedback. And I would have to go and finish my application. Or I would provide some candid feedback and they'd be able to to improve their process. I find that a lot of employers ask their current employees and successful hires for feedback. Oh, no, I was the hiring process. And a lot of times current employees aren't going to give that same level of color that you would get from candidates, right. So that's just something to think about in terms of an exercise for you to do with your team would be to go through and apply to your own jobs and those of your competitors to see if there's any ways to improve the efficiency and experience of the process.
Leighann Lovely 14:58
I'm having flashbacks. I recently as a, as a recent small business owner, I recently thought I'm gonna go and get a part time job, you know, startup? Oh, my God, am I gonna make it? And so I just recently had this experience and you're bringing, you know, horror flashbacks because you're so right. Like, there were so many times where I'm like I, you know, I just want to apply to this job. And it was one step after another after another after another for a very simple job like just an admin position where I'm like, you know, you're having me send my resume, like my resume is, I'm a tenured, you know, customer, I've got so much customer service, I've been in sales I've been in HR I've been in, if you're going to have me send my resume, within two seconds, you're going to see that I'm qualified for well, way overqualified to be a customer service person. But now you're going to have me fill out this application, you're going to have me answer 20 questions, you're going to have me do a skill assessment, then you're going to, and it was like, I'm not doing this, I'm this is like a half an hour process. Now think about that, in terms of somebody who's looking for a job who doesn't have a job, they do that 10 times 15 times a day, that is a full time job. full time job, and half the time 90% of the time, they never get a response ever. Nothing. Crickets, why would I choose? As a candidate? I'm thinking, why am I going out and filling out this crap? Online? repeatedly to get no response? No, buddy, you know, calling me back to positions that for me, I obviously I was in over that I feel that I'm qualified for I have no idea why they're passing on me. No response as to. And if I do get a response to say, no, it's sorry, we've decided to move forward with somebody else. But I'm getting no response as to why I'm not qualified, or why they passed on me. I mean, think about if you're a company, and your manager keeps coming to you and saying, You're not doing very good, you're not doing very good, you're not doing very good, you're not doing good. But they never tell you why you're not doing very good. You can't fix it, you can't make it better. Which means that you're stuck in that cycle of like, well, I'm just going to keep doing the same thing I've done over and over every single I mean, that's the definition of insanity. Literally, the definition of insanity, I'm gonna continue to apply to these jobs, get no response. And every day, I'm going to do it over and over and over and over again. So basically, these poor candidates are out there, going insane, looking for jobs and getting no response, which is the rise of recruiters. However, even recruiters have gotten a bad rap of never getting back to their candidates, because there's so many candidates, that they fall through the cracks. So having something that they could literally go on, put their skills be matched up, be easily searchable. And then once they have a job, go on there and say, yep, I've got a job. No longer search me and it's only one platform that they have to manage. I mean, I mean, I'm speechless at that point, I kind of went off on a little bit of a tangent, but if I, you know, if I could wave my magic wand, it would be, you know, every time you and again, I'm not saying you know, some of these jobs, you have 400 applicants. So it wouldn't be feasible for a company to go in and say, here's why I'm passing on you for every one of those candidates, so I get it. But we do need to have something like this and something like this for every industry would be absolutely, like amazing.
Matt Parkin 19:45
Yeah, and I think the big the big thing to keep in mind with that ghosting piece is like you said it's a time consuming process to give feedback to candidates. But what you can do instead of just sending a message saying thanks for Applying, we'll be in touch, right being very explicit about the next steps in the process to help reduce stress and set expectations with the job seekers. This is the second most requested thing that we found in our research when we were asking candidates, how employers can improve their candidate experience. And that was an automated receipt with explicit next steps. So if you don't, if you apply to a job on a Monday, you know, getting an automated or automated reply, saying, hey, we'll be reviewing applications on Wednesday and Thursday, interview invites will go out on Friday, first round will be Monday, next week, second round Wednesday, next week, if you don't hear from us, by the end of this week, you can assume that we've gone a different direction really appreciate your application that can be automated with your applicant tracking system, right? It takes very little effort to do and give so much power to the job seeker so that they're not constantly refreshing their email inbox, sending follow up messages to recruiters wondering what's happening, right. And that allows for teams that are busy and maybe don't have the time to review the applications right away to level set up front and say, hey, you know, we're getting a lot of applications, it's gonna take a few days for us to go over things. Don't be surprised you don't hear from us right away. I level setting on those expectations is so key and leaving with transparency is the way that you can build that relationship, even if there isn't a good fit at the end of the process.
Leighann Lovely 21:21
Right. Wow, that right? Because all all I think all people want to know is what is the next step. And for me, I I stopped applying to accept applying to positions unless they were the quick apply, which on LinkedIn, you have quick apply positions where you literally just get apply. And you because it was too because I'm lazy. And I didn't really need. You know, again, I didn't really need the job. I had the luxury of being like, Oh, I'm just gonna apply to the quick apply one, and I'm just not everybody has that luxury, you know, people. But yes, if I would have gotten responses of work, you're going to hear from us on this day, if we are interested in moving forward, then I would have been marked my calendar. If I don't hear from them. I can check this one off my spreadsheet of I applied to this and and I have talked to people and they're like, oh, I have I have three spreadsheets, of the different stages of where I am in the process of the positions that I have applied for. And I'm like, wait, spreadsheets, what are you talking about? They're like, it's the only way that I can keep track of all of the jobs that I've applied for. And the ones I've gotten feedback for. We get all of this, you know, feedback, we get this bad rap the world gets this bad rap of the world candidates get this bad rap of ghosting recruiters and companies. What we don't understand is that candidates get ghosted tenfold every day. So why are we bashing them? They're they're ghosted 100 and a million times more every day. It's just that they're not ghosted by a specific person. They're ghosted by the company, just simply not responding to them in any way to let them know that they are not moving forward. Or they filled the position or whatever it might be. And then we turn around and we're like, oh, how dare they go stressed? Well, that person's been, you know, through the wringer on trying to find a job, and you're gonna sit there and bash them. Not that I'm condoning it. I'm not saying that it's okay. You know, in any means, and it's even worse, if they're, you know, hey, out, you've been offered the job, and then you don't show up. That's totally not not. That's another level of not cool. But anyways, I digress. So let's, you know, let's talk about, you know, what, what other studies, what was the number one, you said number two, what was the number one way or feedback that you got that we could improve on candidate experience?
Matt Parkin 24:27
So this is a hotly debated topic, but including wages in compensation in the job posting was the top request from candidates. And we're seeing some states in the US start to mandate this. And I'm hoping that folks who haven't been mandated yet will hop on board and continue doing it because it just saves so much time for both parties, right? It's not a big secrecy. You have a budget for your business that makes sense financially with your money. margins for how much money you want to allocate to the roll. There's always room for negotiation later in the process, but setting an expectation so that candidates know, hey, that's actually under my, what I'm looking for, I'm not even gonna bother applying, right, when we talked about having hundreds and 1000s of applicants to go through, including that compensation data is likely to reduce those applicants that are not going to be a fit for that comp range anyways. And so you're gonna save more time, on your end reviewing applicants, you're going to save time of your hiring managers and interviewers getting to, you know, a third or fourth round interview, and realizing that you're $30,000 apart in terms of expected compensation, and you're just going to create a more memorable experience. Because if you're leading with transparency, with your compensation, that says a lot about your culture. And that can help with retention as well. Because if you're being transparent about wages, you're probably also being transparent with your employer branding, with the rest of your communications to employees. And that's probably a place where people are going to want to work. So that was the top requested change to the candidate experience that we found in our study.
Leighann Lovely 26:07
And, and I understand. So as everybody knows, is that the the world and I'm not, I'm just playing devil's advocate here for a second I, I agree in in one way, I disagree in another way. And here's why. Here's my argument towards this. The world is in a state of flux, there are hundreds of 1000s of people working at companies that have been there for, you know, 10 plus years, whatever that that number might be. And here's, here's the the thing that some employers are struggling with, they have employees at their company that are working in X job, and that employee is making say, we're just going to use a sample number, let's say this employee, and this is going to be a low number, let's say, employee a is making $20 an hour, then we go through this massive and this, employee a is making 20. And he's been at the company 10 years, and he's happy $20 is he's been happy, he's not disgruntled with that, blah, blah, blah. But now we have a younger, we have a new generation of people coming in, we have a world that's been flipped on its head. And that $20 is now $25. And in order to get somebody into that same job, you have to pay $25. Now, I'm not saying this is right. Don't get me wrong, okay. I'm not saying it's right. But if company goes in then says, Here's my job a, and we are starting people at 25. What is employee? A gonna say when he sees the job posting for his job starting at $25 an hour. And he's never been unhappy at the 20 at the 20, but now people are starting with less experience than him at 25. Now, that company, they're not doing anything wrong. They're trying to bring in new people. If they were to have to shift every single person at their company and do a wage adjustment, that they may go under, they may not be able to afford that. But in order to bring in new people, they may have to pay that or go under. Does that make sense?
Matt Parkin 28:57
Yeah, you bring up a good point. And I think that's where the piece about aligning wages with expectations when you're screening candidates is really important. I've talked with some employers that, you know, for example, someone's paying $19 An hour mandating three years of experience, right, and then you have someone down the street who's paying $20 an hour for one year of experience, right. And that gap in the experience that they're looking for is why that one employer paying the lower wage cannot find the candidates that they're looking for. So when you do get into situations where you maybe don't have the financial resources to pay competitively, that's when you kind of need to adjust your expectations and either raise the wage or reduce the expectations in terms of skills that you're looking for and be more willing to train.
Leighann Lovely 29:46
Right. And I completely agree. Unfortunately, it's we just what happened in the world happened so fast that these companies didn't have a chance to You like it? Because the normal progression is that over time, people make more money. You have, you know, generations come in, and they're like, Well, I demand, you know, 22 To start, and you're like, okay, because all my employees now are at 22. Whereas, you know, three years ago, they were at 20, or whatever they might 19. We just had so much happen in such a short period of time, that, like we had, we had 10 years of change happen in three years, probably more like 15 years, change happened in three years. And so all of the sudden for these companies to be like, yeah, here's, here's all my wage information, and still try to bring in people who are now demanding $3 More than they were three years ago, which is insane. But it's the reality we live in. So again, I'm not saying this is right. I'm not saying it's wrong, but it is the reality that we live in, like we saw wages increase in some jobs, $4 an hour to get people in the door. An increase in in jobs that I have never seen in my life, where all of a sudden accompanies like, yeah, the only way we can get them in the door is like paying them $3 More an hour. And I'm like, What's that? You're going like, that takes years. Normally, you know, a company that was paying this much all of a sudden is going to pay three, like, Yep, the only way. And you have when other employees find out, they're like, how did this person started more than I make? And you're like, I don't know, well, I'm you know, and obviously, when that stuff comes out, you've got disgruntled employees, which is not good for a business to begin with, and yada, yada, yada. And I've, I've worked at a company early on in my career that went through a complete overhaul in their, in their wages. So they, they were in that situation where they had people who had 10 years of experience making less than people with five years of experience. So what they did was actually did a complete wage adjustment, some people were increased, some people were, well, no, nobody was decreased. But they did a complete wage adjustment based on everybody's tenured, you know, experience. And they they balanced everybody out to make sure that when they were hiring in, they were hiring at the right wages, that everybody was being treated properly. But right now, that's, the companies are going to have to eventually catch up to that, and then they will be able to be, you know, transparent with their wages, but it's just a weird world.
Matt Parkin 32:57
Ya know, that's why managing that compensation and benchmarking is so important. I came across a company barley.io, they're doing some cool work in the compensation management space to help organizations be equitable, and look at all those pay bands, and they're doing restructuring. So the big, cool resource to check out for folks that are interested?
Leighann Lovely 33:16
Yeah, no, I completely agree. And once you know, once a company gets there, I'm sure that they would be a lot more open to saying yeah, here's the here's the pay structure, who does it right is union companies. I mean, they they negotiate this is their, this is their rates, like, there is no negotiation either to take it or leave it, though, you know, union, you sign a union contract. That is the way that's the way it is it's, you pay your union dues, you get paid this much after you've been at the company, this long, you get this much of an increase, yada, yada, yada. Anyways, I digress. So, you know, what, where's the future lie with? Where do you see, you know, things going? I mean, do you do you see that things, you think that things are going to continue to to get better?
Matt Parkin 34:12
I think that companies that are attracting talent, are going to see a heavier emphasis placed on other things they may not have previously considered. So when we're talking to job seekers about why why they look for jobs and which they choose over another scheduling flexibility and growth opportunities emerged alongside compensation as the top three things that job seekers are looking for. And so I think from an employer branding perspective, and not just employees, resharing company blogs on LinkedIn, people that are actively building a presence and building trust in the community with potential customers and potential job seekers using LinkedIn and other tools as a channel for that. You're going to be able to talk identically share stories related to those perks of scheduling flexibility, and learning and growth opportunities. So that even if you do get in a situation where compensation is misaligned, there's a lever that you can pull, right because some job seekers might be willing to take, you know that $2 per hour pay cut to then have first dibs on shifts, or to get a fast track promotion to management, or, you know, I've seen restaurants that have their employees create tick tock videos, right, and they, they get to have that marketing outlet in a role that might not typically be a marketing role. So thinking through creatively how you can engage your employees and tap into skill sets that might be outside of their job description, is something that I think will really help companies get ahead as we move forward, especially in this competitive market for talent, and will really allow employee employers, employees and job seekers to connect authentically because a lot of job posts, a lot of job roles are not even posted. But a lot of jobs are filled through networking and personal connections. So the more that employers can empower their employees to be brand champions, and create that good candidate experience and employer brand, the more you're going to attract people to your company, both as job seekers and potential customers, right, if someone has a good experience going through your hiring process, I still tell people I interviewed at Capital One A couple years ago, and I never went to work for them. But anyone who asked me about the company, I always raved about their candidate experience, because it was such a great experience. And that that will resonate with job seekers and keep you having lifelong champions to bring in potential customers, partners, job seekers in the future. And so that's just something to really consider and think through that. Just because you're not hiring someone in that moment doesn't mean you're not hiring someone, you know, down the road, or doesn't mean that they're not going to tell their uncle and their brother and their sister and their neighbor that you and you know, maybe they become lifelong customers. So that's some food for thought,
Leighann Lovely 36:57
well, and you just hit a chord with me, like a massive, and I'm going to try to rein my, my myself in here, because, you know, as a sales professional, I constantly am thinking of, you know, all of the different ways that an organization, you know, people think sales is the person that goes out and sells their product. And that's just not the case. Every single person at an organization has whether or not they like it, whether or not they know it has the potential to sell something, and is on a regular basis, whether that be a good candidate experience, a bad candidate experience, or, or something else. And you just you just nailed it, you had a great experience, and you literally have become now a an ambassador for for Capital One, how many people are going to hear that, what you just said, and be like, Oh, okay, maybe that's a great place to work. Because if they set up the expectations, so Well, in the in that, think about how it must be to work for them. So you were sold on the process. And if somebody gets a bad taste in their mouth, from the candidate experience, they'll go out and be like, Oh, don't even bother, don't even bother, you know, applying, you're in here's something else. That what is what is the first thing that a lot of candidates do, when they apply somewhere, they go in they they Google the company? Well, they should anyways, I recommend that, you know, they should Google the company, right then in there, you will see reviews. I mean, now nowadays, you go on, you know any, any online, you know, job seeking thing, and you can see candidate reviews from some people who worked there. And if somebody worked there, and they put, you know, hey, and I was just actually reading on a company yesterday, I won't list the company, but there were reviews, like five of them right at the top find company to work for as long as you have no career aspirations. Another one was, hey, you know, not a bad not a bad organization to work for as long as you have, you know, no desire to ever move up in the organization. It's like, wow, okay, you know, management is is is fine, but at times, you know, has you punch out for lunch and then go back and work. Oh, okay. Wow, this sounds like a place that I really want to work. It's like, if you're not constantly making sure that you're, you're creating, you know, or selling the idea of wanting to work here wanting to and creating a great environment. You are creating an army of people who's going to sink your company. You're never going To be able to hire more people, or you could treat them great. So when they go and review your company, other people are going to read it and go, Oh, this sounds like a really great place to work. Look, they've got 30 reviews of awesome place to work treated me great. You just create an army of people who are selling your company. Every, every person at your company has the ability to sell something, whether it's your product, whether it's your culture, whether it's a great place to work, everybody does. And one bad review, let alone five that I read. And then I stopped reading because I went you know, those have the ability to sink you and you know how much harder it's going to be to recruit. And fill those spots when you have multiple. And again, if you're a college student, not a bad place to work, as long as you have no career aspirations will great, go work there for the summer. But if I'm looking for a career, or a skill, I'm sure as hell not going to go and work at that company. I mean, so as again, as a salesperson, you have to brand yourself, and then hold to it. And then have all your managers hold to it. And have your managers treating your people great, and have your processes down and have your recruiters making sure that they're representing your company properly. You have to treat each person at your organization as a salesperson who has the potential to damage your organization. And that starts with the hiring process. I mean, I, I, again, I'm an HR professional and a salesperson for me, I'm like da, other people are like, Well, what do you mean, I'm a sales? Well, yeah, you represent the company. I remember years ago, when somebody was on Facebook while they were at work, this is when Facebook wasn't that popular at work. Talking on Facebook posting out there, gotta hate my job. This sucks. I hate being here. And I happened to look on Facebook really quick. And I was like, Oh my God, this person's gonna get fired. It didn't occur to them. And I'm like you are on Facebook, at work, talking about how you hate your job. What do you think is going to happen? Like? And it still happens over and over now. It's not very hard to figure out where she works, right? I mean, especially if you're friends with her, and you work with her. This stuff happens every day. And I've gone on and on and on. Any thoughts on that?
Matt Parkin 42:53
Yeah, we, we asked job seekers, why they leave companies and management was the top reason, right job seekers and employees, they're not leaving the name on the wall. They're leaving the people that they're working with. So that's something to keep in mind that there's only so many pizza parties to go around to help with culture and retention. And I'm a firm believer that investing time and energy into a great candidate experience and a great employer brand. It's gonna start that relationship off on the right foot is gonna lead to longer term retention, compared to having a terrible candidate experience and putting in a pool table and buying pizza for everyone wants a month.
Leighann Lovely 43:33
And I've heard reviews to that even mentioned, like buying me pizza, once a month is not going to fix the fact that you know, you're you're paying me shitty, and you tell me I have to stay late, you know, unannounced. No work life balance. That does not fix that one pizza party a month does not fix the every other day a month that I feel, you know, unappreciated, then companies think that they can you know, that food we'll fix all that a pool table or a, you know, couch in the lounge room. And I hate I hate the fact that companies think that they can buy their employees with doughnuts once a month or pizza party once a month or you know, and then treat them crappy the rest of the time. So good, very good. Very good point. So we are coming to time and I would like to ask you the question of the season. What do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Matt Parkin 44:49
Thank me the way people view their relationship with work has changed a lot. You mentioned earlier people expecting higher wages people are now like Looking for more flexibility in roles? People are, you know, it was never a conversation, hey, I'm looking for a hybrid role that that was that was not a common term before the pandemic, right? So I'm employers that are proactive and thinking through how you can create opportunities for employees that align with what they're looking for. And being 100% transparent and authentic, about where you stand is super important, right? Because if you want employees in office five days a week, that that's not a wrong decision, right. That's the culture. That's something that you believe in, be authentic and transparent with that, if you want people working, fully remote, be upfront about that. It's when you get into these situations where it's a hybrid role. And then you have people that are mandated in the office five days a week, that's where a lot of issues come up in terms of transparency. And so I don't think there's one right or wrong way to do it. I've seen people take very strong opinions on either stance of the matter. But I think being transparent and authentic in terms of your communication is the key thing to to keep in mind to get ahead of that.
Leighann Lovely 46:07
Yeah, no, I that is in a very good answer. I completely agree. Completely. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you, Matt, how would they go about doing that?
Matt Parkin 46:18
You can find me on LinkedIn, Matt Parkin, I'm on there every day. So just drop me a note and I'm happy to chat further.
Leighann Lovely 46:24
Awesome. Matt, this has been an awesome conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me today.
Matt Parkin 46:31
Yeah, thanks for having me, Leighann.
Leighann Lovely 46:35
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
candidate, job, employers, resume, job seekers, company, employees, wages, hiring, experience, skills, apply, application, reviews, compensation, thought, work, hr, employer branding, person
Wednesday Sep 27, 2023
Wednesday Sep 27, 2023
Michele Price is a brilliant multi-faceted women with a keen ability to understand humans and help them better understand themselves. As a Lifelong entrepreneur with over 35 years of experience in leadership. As a leadership advisor and communication strategist for CEO’s, senior leaders and business owners. She is a master at asking the right question to bring out the right information at the right time to help leaders grow. Join us for a great and insightful conversation.
Contact Michele –
LinkedIN - linkedin.com/in/micheleprice
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann. Lovely. Let's get this conversation started. Today we are talking with Michelle price, a lifelong entrepreneur who has held all types of leadership roles, CEOs, CMOs ce o 's, in six plus different businesses across multiple industries over 35 years, and who now serves as a leadership advisor and a communication strategist for CEOs, senior leaders and business owners. As a human behaviorist, she brings you a unique lens to developing your leadership skills. Michelle, thank you so much for joining me today. I am excited to talk with you.
Michele Price 01:50
Thank you for having me. I'm glad to be here.
Leighann Lovely 01:52
So why don't you start off by telling my audience and the audience a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Michele Price 02:00
Well, so for label wise, I'm a leadership advisor and a communication strategist. And that all comes from having a 40 year arc in business across multiple roles. So entrepreneurs, CEO, CFO CMO, and as I've sat in each one of those decision making roles, it allowed me to acquire a really deep well of knowledge. Over the years with each business, because I've had six plus businesses over that 40 year art, that's now become a beautiful bevy of wisdom to tap into. And because below was a 70s, when I started, I've seen a lot of change in history, and have a lot of lived experience as a woman in business. And one of the things that happened to me when I was in my 50s was, I said, God, I wish I had known this, this and this in my earlier years. And so as I was contemplating what I wanted to shift into, and out of, you know, I wanted to close down my marketing agency, being a fractional chief marketing officer, because marketing is 24/7. I don't care how you try to play the hours is 24/7. And I didn't want to be doing that kind of lifestyle into my 60s. And so, as I'm contemplating, you know, where do I go with this phase and cycle of my life, knowing that, no matter how old I get, my brain has always been this as even when I was a little girl, it's taken all of the actions over time for me to see origins of where my brain was always thinking in the course of business. And so when I was contemplating what does that change need to look like? I had those kind of conversations with myself. I was like, alright, what would I like to have known that was younger? And how can I help other women, no matter which phase of growth they're in, so that they can achieve what they want to achieve. Without all the resistance that can come along with having either one, their own conditioning, you know, things they've been conditioned by family or society or to the oppressive kind of conditioning that can be placed on women just because of our gender.
Leighann Lovely 04:49
And interesting that well said first of all, because you're you're you're very right when I you know I sit here in my in my 40s and I think Wow, if I would have known or somebody would have, and you can't just simply tell somebody, you can't just simply go and say, Your let me tell you what, but you can you can help coach and consult with somebody and say, let me help guide you through some of this to help them come to an understanding of what, especially with somebody who's so experienced as you and help them see things clearer, especially as a younger entrepreneur, younger, not even entrepreneur, but somebody who's in business who wants to level up. Because had I known what I know, now, in my late 20s. You know, I feel like I could have been so much farther. However, there's also the How did I not gain some of the knowledge? Throughout my, my 30s, you know, because my 30s was a huge, probably the biggest growth period for me. But if I would have had somebody coaching me, like you, maybe that growth period would have been half of what it was. And maybe I would have been able to get where I am now, and half the time, and maybe been able to overcome some of those hurdles, that either I put up on my own of my own. Because of my own conditioning of thinking that I couldn't do it, or because somebody told me in my past, I wasn't capable of doing it. Or, you know, the whole, what does that? What does that I can't think of the phrase right now. Or because just the way that society makes you feel as a the way that even even your job makes you feel of Oh, yeah, I'm not I'm not good enough to do that. But if you have somebody who's been there done that saying, Yes, you are capable of overcoming that hurdle. That would have made all of the difference in being able to make that growth period for me, exponentially shorter.
Michele Price 07:39
And there's something I'd like to add in here that I hear people say that, as listeners are listening to them, I'm going to challenge them to ask a different question. Because usually what they say to us when we say I could have been in such a different place, had I known all these things that come back phrases, yeah, but you wouldn't have learned what you've learned, and then everything would have changed. I'm like, Oh, guys, stop diminishing. It can be Bo. I can still have learned those things. without all the extra challenges. There's an assumption in that statement, that if I didn't go through all the turmoil, I wouldn't have learned the lesson bullshit.
Leighann Lovely 08:28
I agree with that. I I'm gonna use a really bad example. But so on Monday, I broke my finger. Now I was one.
Michele Price 08:40
Yeah, your hand.
Leighann Lovely 08:44
So and Mike, this was a huge learning experience, not for me, because I knew as soon as I did it, I went, Oh my God, how stupid does one person have to be to be rushing, and then close their, their car door on their pinky, to the point where I actually had to open my car door in order to get it out. My daughter was standing there when it happened. So this is not a learning experience. For me. This is a learning experience for my daughter. So I'm dropping her off at school like close my door and my pinkie have to pretend that I'm perfectly perfectly fine because she sees and she hears the noise that comes out of my mouth, which was very muffled. I managed to make it you know, non eventful for all of the other kids around and she says, Mommy, are you okay? Yep, I'm perfectly fine. Go to school. Have a great day. Meanwhile, I jump in my car, my entire hand is shaking. And I'm holding in this you know, what I want to do is scream out. You know, all the words that are colorful is so I get home I should have gone to the hospital. But I don't realize at this point how bad it is because I'm just holding it in. She gets home from school, the learning that I now go into. I says I say to my daughter, Skylar this morning, Mommy was in a huge rush. And I wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. And so what I did was I was holding on to the door and I closed the door, and mommy's finger was in it. Oh, and I said, and I wasn't paying attention. And so my finger got stuck in the door. Oh, I said, so because I wasn't paying attention. I hurt myself. Oh, I said, so, you know, when mommy tells you that you need to pay attention to what you're doing. Yeah. I said, that's why. So, from that, you know, I turned my stupid broken finger from Commodore into a learning lesson, she doesn't need to break her finger to learn. From that experience, we don't all have to go through the pain to learn something. If it's explained to us in a way that we can get something out of it. Not everybody has to, you know, go through the pains if they are willing to receive the information. But again, that that comes back to the mindsets. Are you willing to receive the information? And learn from it? Or are you of the mindset that you have to go through the pain in order to learn from it? Because there are
Michele Price 11:31
times it depends on the cycle of learning, you're in as well? Yes, that's where it's important for whoever is your advisor to pay attention to? Where are they in the learning cycle? And am I trying to make them Quantum Leap too big?
Leighann Lovely 11:46
And I absolutely agree. I absolutely agree. But, but you're when you make that statement of Oh, whoa, I had to have lived through that. Not every time, not every time. Not everybody has to break their finger to realize that they shouldn't put their hand in the door when they close it. You know, there are plenty of plenty of examples, plenty of people out there that can walk them through, you know, here's what happens if, but we can we can make it better. Or we can do things different because the outcome could be this versus this and so you perfect timing to have a broken finger to give the exhale a note to my listeners, please make sure you don't close your car door on your pinky finger because it's unpleasant like a mofo. Yeah, so, tell me when you work with somebody? Or actually before I ask that. So do you typically work with individuals? Or do you sometimes? Or do you not sometimes do you engage organizations? How do you how do you engage people and how do you work with them?
Michele Price 13:05
It's both. Okay. I've probably been more word word word. Probably been more. Like that's not the right word. I haven't been as active in going after quote, like, company type engagements. They're showing up though, and and I love how I've taken a little more of No, oh, backseats not a good analogy. I've taken just a little more of a relaxed attitude towards who I want to engage with company wise, because I've watched a lot of my colleagues get really burned out why trying to, quote, sell a company on something and they say they want to make those changes in that and go in there and they fight him tooth and nail. And so I've taken a more relaxed approach to it and paid attention to who we're which kind of goes back to what we talked about the the lesson, curve cycle. Where are they really in their knowingness and their willingness to make the change? What I find is, so for example, everything that leads my actions, my questions, my decisions and my actions comes from my statement of purpose that I want to accomplish this last phase or third phase of life. And that is I want to see 75% underrepresented voices at all, decision making tables everywhere. I don't care if that's local government, national, local government, I don't care if that small business, regional businesses, big business, I don't care where. But the entire community needs to be at the decision making tables, we're already seeing the outcomes of them not being there. So when you think about it from that direction, what I find is, I have chosen to focus on working with individuals who want to be able to lead from that kind of place in energy and want to have that kind of impact in our purposes and values align. And now what I'm finding that even though I have a really heart driven desire to work with women in business, whether they own their own business or their, their business leaders inside of companies, I jokingly said, and this is this is the, this is the funny part. We always say don't, don't give a throw down or a dare to the universe. I jokingly said last summer, How funny would it being if I ended up working with a bunch of male allies? Now, while I've built my business around women in leadership, guess who's starting to hold their hands up? male allies, and some of them have been in government, some have been in business. I'm letting it organically grow, just like a garden, from people who either see from conversations online, and they resonate in something pulls them to reach out and want to work with me, or they hear from somebody that they know, like, and trust. And they're like, you know, I know you've been talking about blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm going to tell you right now, I've been working with this gal for six months, and here's what I've learned about me. You can't do it any better than that, then. So you know, it's not my goal, the B word, word word. And I say that a lot. Because as I've, as I've become more conscious of my ADHD, is that a force in myself, that's my anchor to my brain to go give me the word I need. I've become more conscious of being a good receiver. So often, leaders, some of their biggest lessons come from what I call the Yin side of the lesson. Yes, we need to be decisive. Yes, we need to be good, great decision makers. But how good are we at listening? And how good are we at receiving? We've already seen the toxic outcome of push action, and push leadership that only comes from here's what I think we need to do. Versus All right. You all tell me, what are you experiencing? Knowing that we're all on the same page of what we're trying to accomplish in the business. And then after you heard that information, now you have enough data to add yours in and start problem solving. But if you're solving, if you think you're solving something from your perspective, you're missing 99% of the data that's there to help you.
Leighann Lovely 18:52
Write. Interesting. And, and so I want to go back organically growing your allies. And I'm sorry, I'm thinking so you have more men reaching out to you. And despite the fact that you've, you're vocal about you want to help women, why do you think that is?
Michele Price 19:23
So that's, that's only happened in the past, I'd say three months, and so shorter timespan to give any kind of pattern to it, but I'm what I really think, timing wise. So where we are in the world right now. And the kind of conversations that are even happening on LinkedIn, which, you know, had always been this stuffier social media platform. People are starting to finally recognize those of us like myself who Been talking about individual versus collective energy for years, they're starting to finally understand it, they're starting to finally see the repercussions of what happens when we all take individual actions, and how that contributes to us as a whole. And so because they're seeing that, and they're feeling it in a really visceral way, with the challenges that's happening in business with the challenges that are happening in government, and then what the challenges are happening socially, as well as our climate change, it's literally happening in every phase of life. This is where someone like myself, who's always operated from an indigenous lens, bring some really cool questions and ability to assess things from a really different perspective, and people are noticing.
Leighann Lovely 20:54
So do you think that do you think that, um, that some of these individuals are strategically reaching out to somebody who is an end? Here's historically, I would say that a lot of people reached out to somebody who is like minded. And this is what the problem, you know, where a problem, you know, was, let me go find a coach who is like minded. Okay, well, what is that going to do? They're going to align with you on your decisions, they're going to align with you on the way that you think, how are they going to help you grow? Right? If I want to find a coach, I want to find a coach that aligns with my morals, with my ethics. But I also want to find a coach who's going to help push me to think a different way. Which means if you know, in reality, why don't I go find a coach that is of a different background, or maybe a male coach, maybe even have a different ethnical, or ethnic background. Because then they come from a total different, you know, even upbringing would then allow me to, to be exposed to somebody who could teach could consult and helping me open my mind to different ideas. So I'm going to guess that males are reaching out to you because they see that not only are you brilliant, but you're a woman who may be able to help them understand their female counterparts, better, help them shift their mindset better, and be more open to ideas that they themselves, just simply because of biology, and proven that men and women do not necessarily always think the same. Same as somebody, you know, somebody who is of a different race, bring, and it's proven, bring different ideas, because simply of our upbringing, we think differently. We, we come with different ideas we have, and that's what makes it so beautiful. When we allow the underrepresented at the table, we are able to create new ideas. And so it would make sense that they are reaching out to you because they want to grow. So I applaud them. And if it's not for that, then it would be based solely on your on your credentials, which again, you should be proud either way. Right.
Michele Price 24:13
Thank you. So
Leighann Lovely 24:17
I mean, and good for you for taking on, you know, clients who are not necessarily what you originally thought out for. But you know, well, I'm a salesperson. take on clients.
Michele Price 24:36
Well, yeah, so there's some clients I'm not willing to take on Yep.
Leighann Lovely 24:41
No, and I I totally agree. There are some clients that I'm, you know, that I would not be willing to take on that I'm not willing to take on either. So, so that's, I find that very interesting. I find that wildly interesting because it is It is important that you know you don't that somebody who's looking for somebody like you that they assess how they are choosing that person. And that you're not just simply choosing somebody who is going to give you all of the Yep, I agree with that you're doing that, right. And if it's somebody who already have
Michele Price 25:26
plenty of Yes, men inside their company, they don't need another one. That's why they're in the position, they are correct. And in all fairness, a lot of times their employee, or the people they've put in managing and leading roles aren't to blame, because they haven't rewarded him for the things that allowed them to give them any kind of pushback.
Leighann Lovely 25:48
So let's, let's talk, let's dive a little bit deeper into, you know, how do you help develop these individuals and these organizations? What is the actual work that you do with them? Let's let's dive deeper into that.
Michele Price 26:04
That, that, that can change so much because of the fact that everyone's in a different place. And all right. So here's the difference in how I do that. I know a lot of people who are either doing leadership advisory or they're doing some type of change, management, change training, they just go in with a formula. They teach their formula and they exit. That is not how I I'm much more focused on less assess. Who do you think you are right now? How aligned is that with who you want to be? What are your actual core strengths and weaknesses? So I do a lot of work using archetypes. And so we start diving into that. And because I am a master question asker. And I'm fully in tune with all of my senses. It's why I'm able to be a live lie detection machine. And when people aren't answering with something that's 100%. Yes, I've honed my skill well enough to use questions to help narrow in and elicit down to where the challenge is where the misalignment is. So it's much more intricate. It's not, it's not, you know, we're going to do ABC, and everyone's gonna use this workbook. And you know, then we'll talk about it, you know, that that reminds me of where therapy went wrong, too. Oh, boy, did I put my foot in it? But hey, you know, I'm used to, I'm used to stimulating people to have the hard questions, right. And those are the people who really enjoy working with me, is the fact that I am willing to have the hard conversations with them. But it's not just from a straight confronting position. I also have the energy and the training, to be able to hold the space and use masterful questions to allow them to start seeing things for themselves of themselves in themselves. In that moment, they literally have breakthroughs just from conversations.
Leighann Lovely 28:57
That's amazing. So it really it really is that you you customize. It's customized to each individual. Yeah, you don't have a, you know, like, some of the large, you know, an action coach some of the large, you know, coaching programs out there. There's not a, like, here's a proven program that you work with individuals. It's really a matter of going in and having real authentic conversations and calling people out on their bullshit and saying, Okay, no, you may. And sometimes people don't even realize that they're bullshitting themselves.
Michele Price 29:43
And being able to do it in a way where it's not judgmental or shaming, that's really, really important. People are not gonna open up to the components of where the emotional, the emotional line is in a problem. If you don't have the capacity acity to actually do that, and that's where I see a lot of people, they don't have the capacity to do that type of work. And leaders need someone who have that capacity. Because you can handle things from a surface or an intellectual basis that you're never going to get to the core of the problem if you don't know how to do the emotional work. And there's a difference between someone who's masterful at being able to do each layer of work, whether it's mental, intellectual, spiritual, emotional, and someone who's a therapist, you don't really need a therapist when you're having true mental health issues that are outside of the realm of you doing your inner work. So many times though people weren't word word, they, they give up their responsibility for doing their own inner work. And label it. Well, I just need to go see a therapist. Well, okay, so tell me, how do you actually how do you do your own emotional regulation? What, what are you doing from a spiritual basis, that allows you to really know who you are, right? Because a therapist is going to be able to help you do those things, those that her journey,
Leighann Lovely 31:28
but there's a lot of people that don't. And this is a generational thing, this this truly is a generational thing. Suppress, suppress, suppress, suppress. Now, the generation that's coming up, parents, you know, got smarter, because there wasn't that, you know, suppress emotion suppress emotions. You know, it wasn't in boys don't cry. It kind of generational thing, but, you know, and, but there is this generational thing of you don't experience emotions, it's not okay to cry, you know, suck it up, rub some dirt on it. That was that was, you know, a generation now, we're unlucky. The kids coming up are lucky, you know, my daughter will throw a fit, and I'll say to her, it's okay to, you know, it's okay to be upset. It's not okay to hit throw, you know, or the actions in which she has from the emotion that she's experiencing. So we've we figured out that emotion is good. You know, but now we need to figure out the reaction or the whatever you're doing. We just need to hone in on that. But so generationally, we had a group of people large, you know, especially the baby boomers, and some of the generations off after that was suppressed emotion. Don't show people that you're, you know, don't cry in front of people. It's inappropriate. Why cry? If you're if telling you
Michele Price 33:03
why? Because one of the things I would really like everybody to stop doing is continuing to place a lot of blame on boomers in only because it doesn't serve you it doesn't serve the collective. What's happened is people generationally have been traumatized. And so like we were talking about earlier, where research, you know, so research goes in cycles, like anything else. And so, so this is coming from an indigenous lens. From an indigenous lands, our focus is always about self actualization first, because the self actualized person can contribute to the community. Everybody has a role, and everybody is respected. When when we live in times where people don't have that spiritual thread or component as part of their life, and instead, aspects of spirituality have morphed into religion, which has been weakened, historically, see how it's been used to control people, then you have severed their connection to a huge piece of who they are. And so anytime someone has a severed connection in any area of their life, that's a trauma. And if we haven't rewarded them, or given them the tools to need in order to reconnect and become full again. Then we're part of the problem. And so what I'm seeing is this ping pong game that happens with generations because it's the easy thing to do. It's easy to blame our parents or our grandparents. To and I'm not saying you're doing it, yeah. But without taking into consideration, the time, the tools and whether they were rewarded or punished for trying to find the answers to heal those.
Leighann Lovely 35:21
Right. And I'm not in there is absolutely just just to clarify, I am not blaming any generation for, I'm simply saying that there was a lack of understanding and education in the years past to truly understand that, that emotions are not bad. But they are for some uncomfortable, and therefore, in the past, it was if you need to cry, go in your room and hide and men especially.
Michele Price 35:53
But that was how we were punished that that is how groups of people right, saw that if you can control people from an emotional basis, if you can suppress them, then we can control and manipulate them. Which is why in some of my headers, I don't know if I have it on LinkedIn anymore. But I believe it's still Twitter, or whatever that thing is, well, now that emotions are data for better decisions.
Leighann Lovely 36:20
And now that we are in a state where we're understanding that, while emotions may be messy, but they're, they're necessary, they're necessary for learning, they're necessary for decision making. They're necessary for for so much. We are one, obviously, we're going through this huge, huge mental health pen, like, I don't want to say pandemic, but huge mental health, like issue because people are finally going I need to feel the way I need to feel. And everybody is just feeling this overwhelming, like sense of dread, especially with what the world experienced, blah, blah, blah. But that's going to balance out.
Michele Price 37:11
Because now we're aware of evolution.
Leighann Lovely 37:15
And we're going to balance we're going to balance out because now we're saying it's okay to feel that way. Feel it, get through it, experience what you need to experience, and then thrive. And one day, it's going to balance out and get some of these kids off of these drugs, hopefully. And again, I'm not I'm not an anti drug person, trust me, I have bipolar disorder, my audience knows that I, in order to manage, manage that I take medication, blah, blah, blah, anyways. So it's just it's so messy. We're in such a state of complete mess right now. But I do truly see that there's going to be a balance on the other side, one day, we're going to come to a little bit more of a balance on all of that we're it's just so strange.
Michele Price 38:12
Such a strange time in history, the nature to their cycles and phases in nature. Yes, yeah. So this is one of the things that I usually have to bring up from an indigenous lens to help give people an anchor point of where they can hold on to and attach, hope and understand and ask themselves additional or different questions. And so, yes, we're going through a lot of things as a collective right now, the questions I'd offer people to start asking themselves is, where am I in the phase and the cycle of growth? So if we, if we're going to pick let's say, let's pick a nature growth cycle of a butterfly, am I in the caterpillar stage? Am I in the FUPA stage? Or am I about to emerge, and now I'm about to actually transmute and transform into something else. And so when you use questions to start assessing where you're at, then it allows you to anchor in on that in one stop blaming and shaming yourself because you're not because you're in a different phase than where maybe you mentally or emotionally feeling you are in you're in the pupa stage where you're supposed to be liquefied. And before you start growing into that next thing, which allows you to become a butterfly, stop shaming yourself for being in that phase Instead, start asking yourself different questions. Cool. So now that I'm going down into the liquid state, what are going to be the additional additional opportunities or possibilities that I'll want to tap into So as I go in those more phase, I actually would become more of what I'd like to be.
Leighann Lovely 40:06
Right. That's, that's while you make a very valid point, like, and people I think, forget that sometimes reframing the question, or having a question altogether, that's different. can really change your outlook?
Michele Price 40:28
Yeah, because when I hear people state that they're overwhelmed that, that just means that this is the focus instead of this. So we use questions to go okay, so not that. Okay, so not that when people can't see us, we're on video. So I'm holding my hands wide. And I'm saying, okay, overwhelm is a wide Outland. Every time we ask questions, we narrow that lens until it becomes a point where it's more of a laser. And then we're getting meaningful answers. And we can take action.
Leighann Lovely 41:08
Absolutely. And as entrepreneurs, as in people, that entrepreneurs or people who are very high, you know, decision makers, within businesses, it's sometimes that overwhelming, you can feel it Come on, where all of the sudden you are accomplishing nothing. And then as you focus in and that becomes that focus becomes that pinpoint, you can feel that overwhelming feeling just fall away when you go. Now I know my purpose, I know exactly what I need to accomplish. And all of a sudden, you don't feel that overwhelming. And once you get one project done, you can go okay, now I can move on to the next and I can move on to the next. But it's hard when you're in that point of oh my god, what do I have to do? I've got so much to do, I don't even know where to begin. Okay, well stop. What is the most important thing today
Michele Price 41:55
Where the value of having an advisor correct and help you anchor into what's really happening? Yep. Help you use different questions in the future, using it that moment, and therefore you make what I call a faster or quicker progress.
Leighann Lovely 42:13
And it's hard. Um, it's in I have people in my life where I'll call on him, I don't even know where to start. Like, I've got so many things. I don't even know where to start. And they're like, Okay, what is the most important thing today? What do you have to do right now? That is either revenue generating, or extremely important, you have to hone in on what is the most important thing today? Right now? Well, yeah, I can tell you that it's this. Okay. Go do that. Oh, I can do that. Okay, call me when you're done. Oh, okay. And it's just, it's like, why can't I figure that out on my own? Because you're so overwhelmed, that your brain doesn't have the capacity to just think like that at that moment. So sometimes having a coach having an advisor to just be like, yep, we just need you to click back into your brilliance. You can't on your own because your brain is whirling of NF geeks, especially when you have bipolar disorder, or ADHD, or, which adds another level of fondness to the game, right?
Michele Price 43:29
Yes, it does. And you know, it's interesting, too, because people are starting to finally understand when I talk about this other thing, and that's collective energy. There's now the science is catching up to spirituality, especially indigenous spirituality. People are starting to finally have more of an intellectual understanding of this. But if you've not been so kind of like when you learn how to dance. Now, when you learn how to dance in the beginning, are you going to be able to go out and do all of the different types of dances? Oh, take Sunday, learn each one. And then when you learn each one, you actually can do what's that thing? We're where people can actually just go up and make something someone puts on a record and they just go out and make
Leighann Lovely 44:21
improv.
Michele Price 44:22
Oh, yeah, that that all takes time. Same thing. When we're in a phase right now of collective evolution, other words, that means we're all being activated by the same thing at the same time, and that's where some of the highly motivated, emotional energy is coming from right now. If your spiritual journey has not been one who knows how to transmute that energy, it's going to be overwhelming. And so I remind everybody is Well, when you're feeling overwhelmed when you understand your emotional components, it's a lot easier for you to, again use questions and go okay. What What have I learned about myself that helps ground me? Go do that, then once you're grounded go is the Are these my emotions are these someone else's. And then I literally give clients a whole list of questions to ask themselves. And a lot of times we customize those questions to who they are, in order to help center them, and bring them to a place where they can start taking action. But I also want to remind everybody, it's normal, when the collective is going through something as significant as we are right now, to feel overwhelmed. So stop shaming yourself for it, right? Instead, ask yourself, why do I need to learn about myself that allows me to center and ground myself. So this doesn't take me off my path so easily, right?
Leighann Lovely 46:05
Yes, and I would love to continue this conversation. But we are coming to time. And I want to ask you the question of the season, and I'm excited to hear what you have to say, the question of the season, what do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Michele Price 46:29
I can't give a date. But we will come to a transmutation where when we look back as a people, and as individuals, where we're going to look back and go, Why did we find ourselves so hard? We were all right there on the precipice of being self actualized. And being in touch with who we are as people as individuals, as well as the goodness that's in us as a collective, why do we find ourselves in each other so hard? We were right there,
Leighann Lovely 47:10
you know, for the first for the first time, and and you are a highly empathetic human, very much an empath. You know, just in talking with you, and hearing, you know, and again, for the audience, I, Michelle and I were introduced through a past guest and her and I have not had a ton of time to really talk with each other. This is really the first conversation that her and I have had. And so just wanted to put that out there. But in talking with you, Michelle, you you just really I can tell that you are very in tuned with not only yourself, but with other people. And in talking with you, as I'm sitting here, I'm having this like Flash, and this is my own weird brain. I have like flashes of like pictures of things in my head of like, I'm a visual person. And as we're talking, I feel like I'm seeing this like, almost like a like I'm standing on top of the clouds. And I'm looking down at a tornado and into the center of it. Right. And I feel like that's, that's where we're at where we are in the center of the tornado as, as everything you know, is is colliding together with when it comes to the state of I don't know that. Not explaining this? Well. I don't know that we've ever in history had a pandemic, the Well, no, we haven't had all of this collides since, you know, we haven't had a pandemic since, you know, way back. And anyways, let me finish. We had the pandemic we had, you know, everything that's happening with the economy, we had a president come you know, the the political unrest, we've had all of the stuff happening with the race wars, all of a technology booming through, you know, going through the roof with all of the things that are colliding all at once, just it to me, it's like this tornado of things at all. And we haven't gotten out of it, you know, we still have all of these other, these other things that are contributing to this like tornado. And I feel like there's going to come a time just like you just said, you don't know the date, but there's going to come a time that people are going to look back at this and go Oh, my God, the world spinous so far forward, and they experienced so much in such a short period of time, which I think is why we're fighting it because people don't know They don't know how to handle so much happening in such a short period of time. Maybe by the time my daughter is an adult, she's going to be the one that goes, Why did they fight that? Why? I don't understand. Because she will finally be of the mindset of Yeah, that's how change happens. Right? But for you and me change is not supposed to happen that fast. You mean, it took? When did you get your first cell phone? Michelle?
Michele Price 50:41
Oh, so I was one of the I was I've been an early adopter in almost every form. So I got it when it was like the really big
Leighann Lovely 50:50
right. So did I mean I got I got a cell phone and it was you know, I'm my hands. It was the huge, you know, the, you had a green lettering on it. It was an ugly, huge phone, you had to get a bigger purse just to carry it around.
Michele Price 51:08
It had its own little bag that it zipped up in in car.
Leighann Lovely 51:11
Okay, you have the bag phone, you actually have the bag phone. Okay. So how long did it take from getting the bag phone to having a computer in your pocket? years, years, and years and years? Because then we went through, you know, the flip phones, we went through, you know, the BlackBerry two, it was years until we actually had phones that were now computers. That's how change happens. It doesn't happen where one day you're working in an office and the next day you become a remote employee doing all of your meetings online. But that's what happened.
Michele Price 51:57
Well, sometimes history interferes and causes it to happen faster.
Leighann Lovely 52:02
Yep. So excellent answer. I did not expect to ramble on but I just You had such an amazing answer. So Michelle, if somebody wanted to get a hold of you, how would they go about doing that?
Michele Price 52:16
You know, the best way to get a hold of me is on LinkedIn. So literally linkedin.com Michelle Bryce, I made sure I got my name. No initials, nothing Michelle price.
Leighann Lovely 52:29
Excellent. And that will be in the show notes. So somebody can just go right to the show notes and click there and the link will be there. So Michelle, thank you so much. This has been an amazing conversation. I could talk to you for hours.
Michele Price 52:42
Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Leighann Lovely 52:45
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
talk, happening, questions, conversations, business, michelle, phase, work, coach, individuals, emotions, actions, huge, learn, women, coming, company, collective, shaming, advisor
Wednesday Sep 20, 2023
Wednesday Sep 20, 2023
Dr. Delaine Fowler a business owner, forward thinker and keynote speaker who works to actively help prevent injury before it happens. This is one great conversation with Delaine to learn how she works with organizations to educate them about how the body moves and what can be adjusted to prevent injury. She is a wildly brilliant women and this is a conversation that you don’t want to miss.
Contact - accelerate-pt.com
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started. Dr. Delaine Fowler is a recognized expert in Work Health Connections, a physical therapist specializing in workplace injury. Delaine has helped 1000s of patients on their road to physical recovery. After years of treating people in her office, she could not help think there was a better way to help people before their problem ended up in surgery. After watching surgeons Chase pain from one body part to another and employees waiting for the doctors to ask the same question she realized this was not going to happen. She decided to start collaborating with companies to find out if changing the way people work might stop employees from what would in many cases be a lifetime of pain and suffering. Due to multiple surgeries only chasing symptoms she quickly discovered treating employees as individual athletes and applying her skill sets in care and coaching had a profoundly positive impact on employees based in the companies today she dedicates her focus toward preventing the strains stress and injury that cost companies millions Delaine company serves 10,000 employees by placing physical therapy and certified athletic trainers where they're needed most the workplace. Her clients include major brands like Aldi, gelled one and Dillard. Delaine is a popular keynote speaker and workplace safety thought leader known for her practical approach and industry shaping insight. Delaine thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to have this conversation. Family. And I'm excited to be here.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 02:49
Thanks for having me.
Leighann Lovely 02:50
Yeah. So why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 02:54
Sure. My name is Delaine Fowler, I'm a physical therapist by trade. I fell in Super luckily, early on in my career into helping employees be well and feel well. So I was I got frustrated in my PT clinic, because I was seeing all these employees at the same jobs, getting the same kind of injuries and then having the same surgeries. And so one day, just a few months into my practice, I started calling companies and asking them like, Hey, can I come and look at these jobs, like super curious about what people do, and just had an opportunity to start watching how people work and what people actually do, which is really incredible. To watch how people work and how things are made and how things get done and how food gets to our table. It's just a blessing to us. And a miracle honestly, that we can all come together to make make the world go round. So that so I have been an injury prevention specialist. As a physical therapist for 19 years. I have my own practice. And we now help Bistro, I started out with my little office 15 years ago, helping about 15 people a day. And now we help about 10,000 people a day across the US with our programs.
Leighann Lovely 04:08
That is Wow, that's awesome. And I think when you and I originally spoke and just kind of got to know each other a little bit, the thing that really stood out with me was that you physically go in to some of these companies, when you see, you know, repeat people coming in with injuries that are similar. It just It like makes so much sense. You know, you don't see, you know, you don't see a surgeon going in and saying, Wow, I've seen this injury a million times and they all come from the same. You know, they just they don't do that. Well, they probably don't have time or they don't have time to do that. But it makes so much sense that if you see somebody or a group of people who are working at the same company, well, gee, why don't we go figure out why they all have the same, you know, shoulder injury, what are they doing to To create this same problem, right? So I want to I want to talk about that because I'm, I am wildly fascinated by this. Like, it just seems like so much makes so much sense. You know, and I know there are some of these monster sized companies out there who have, you know, clinics right on site? And I'm sure it's it probably kind of, it's because of that well, and because, you know, hey, if we can treat our employees here, why after them, but tell me a little bit about how you consult with those companies and what you what you do?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 05:40
Sure. And it can be a myriad of things, but are are, what makes an impact with our employers is when we place an athletic trainer or physical therapist in house, with their their company, within the warehouse, or what it however they want us to structure it. And we are basically their frontline health care provider for anything musculoskeletal, and most injuries on site are going to be musculoskeletal related. Because it's kind of like in the military in the military, an army especially they'll send when you get injured, they send you to the PT and PT decides is a musculoskeletal or not. If it's not, you go to the physician right away, right, there's no you go directly. But if it is, then you stay with pte. And so we took that model and applied it in on site. So and these people, they're really not to the injury point, they're even before that they're with just the this is this is tired, this is a fatigue, this is sore. And so you really are going directly to the cause of that issue. Dealing with it very early that way we're dealing with problem when it's this small, not when it's this big. And trying to say okay, well, let's, let's see if we eyes and do all the first aid things that we can here, and then we're gonna go to where you work. Let's figure out like, Oh, are you lifting that box in an odd way? Are you grabbing those potato bags like this instead of, you know, underhanded, like you should, and then coach them into their good habits. So we have a care side and a coaching side of our business. And we'd like to all together, and we like to be that relationship driven person in house with the knowledge. You know, that's usually the problem is that you have these caring HR people, environmental, health and safety employees who want to do the best for their employees, but their knowledge base is in a different direction. And so to have a health care provider there with that knowledge base to say this is musculoskeletal, or this is the reason why this is happening, has had a tremendous impact on our clients.
Leighann Lovely 07:48
And that's absolutely awesome to be able to have somebody physically come in and watch and see. So do you make, you know, do you go then to management and say, Hey, I'm gonna make a recommendation? Can we? Or can we change this up and, you know, alter the way that things are being done?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 08:10
Certainly, and, and we, we definitely put the coaching into the employee because we want the employee. Yeah, we tell our employees a lot alike, you might work at this location, this job for two years, five years, five months, 10 years. But no matter where you go after this, you're going to take your back your shoulder, your neck with you. And so let's teach you into good habits here so that you're carrying them forward, no matter where you go. Now, if it's this line design is improper. So really the way I fell in love with this job and what we do is way back forever ago, I was I was called out to a company, I was watching this lady work and she walked up to me, she said, Hey, should I moved from that line to this line a couple months ago, and ever since my wrist is killing me. I was like, okay, so Well, let's, let's watch, I'll just watch your work. And I realized after like, a few minutes, she was reaching over and pressing this button with a really weird hand posture. Like every 70 seconds. I was like, okay, so I called the maintenance guy over and said, Hey, can we move that button? Like from there to somewhere else where it's a little bit more accessible? And he's like, Yeah, I don't see why not. So I came back just a few weeks later, and the lady almost tackled me she was so happy because she her wrist pain went away. But even more important, all the people on that line had told her Thank you. They had told her thank you because she was the advocate for them so that nobody else on that line had to deal with that risk. So they were all having wrist pain, right? They're all having wrist pain. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, we went to the source, we fix the ergonomic issue. And there it is. And sometimes the ergonomic issue is about line design, but a lot of times it In the bad habits that we build up over time thinking that they're good for us, or that we're, we're getting products faster onto our pallets, or you're making a product widget faster or something. And usually it's not really true. Yeah, it's just a training issue.
Leighann Lovely 10:17
Interesting. And the fact that so many other people stayed silent on that for as long as they did, which is, and we, I guess, as a society, we've just, we've become silent. And we've, I guess, we've taught our employees that that's the way we want them to be. And now we're trying to unravel that behavior. Hey, you're in pain all the time? Well, okay, let's, let's talk about that. Is there something that I can do that's within reason, I mean, obviously, you can't pick up an entire machine or you can't complete, you can't reconfigure the machine completely. But if it's a reasonable accommodation, that's going to actually stop you from being in pain, which inevitably is going to make you more productive. At Why don't people bring it up. And that comes down to fear? Well, if I, if my employer is upset with me, or if I, you know, I mean, but something as simple as that, like, Hey, move this, move this button. But here's something that's I also find, so I was talking to, you know, a friend of mine, and there was a, there was a fan sitting on the floor, because it was a wildly hot day. And unfortunately, where the outlet was, made it so that the cord came across the walkway. And so as somebody was walking through, they said, You need to move, you can't have the fan sitting there. And he's like, Okay, I understand. And then he goes, however, you do realize that the way that this machine is set up, causes the vacuum, that I have to put in the machine to be completely across the walkway every day. So the little tiny cord, that is the you know, trip hazard is nothing in comparison to this vacuum that is set up. So there is often you know, things that our companies are aware of, and they still just turn a blind eye to it unless it's, oh, gee, the cords not supposed to be there. But you know, hey, my vacuum cord might pull vacuum is, you know, it's like, some companies are still very guilty of will break the rules when it satisfies us. But not you know,
Dr. Delaine Fowler 12:50
And, and companies can't do everything all at once either. We found that many of our companies, their management teams, they you know, we've been on this Lean management system for several decades at this point. And so lean management sounds nice. But if you don't have people to take take care of the people, right, and to take care of the problems, you know, if your engineering department gets ransacked through, you know, hiring and turnover, then those lists have to do get longer and longer. And so that's what we find with our especially the find that our clients are companies that hire us. They obviously care a lot about their employees if they're putting a physical therapist or athletic trainer in there to take care of people that in and so but I agree that's that it's like, well, what's the next priority, right? And that gets put in front of some things that seem like well, why can't we just take care of this and some one work area, that those tasks may not even affect this area over here. And so you're sitting there for however long waiting on things to get done. So I can see it both ways. There are there are some companies who could care less like they're just trying to get products out the door and products in the door and but the employers we work with, we can tell that there, they really are trying hard to accommodate and trying to take care of the people especially now like you're really right, that we've come to this point where we realize that our people are our most valuable things. And if we're willing to take care of them, and just even in as many small ways as we can, and not not like just putting lipstick on a pig, like actually caring about them and saying how can we make this workplace better because they're going to spend a third of their day with us? I think those companies are the ones that are actually going to win in the end.
Leighann Lovely 14:43
Yeah, I completely agree. And there's an but if you truly looked at the list, right? Because look at the list of all of the different things that you could that you could do to improve your employees life. That list becomes really long, like with all of the offerings out there, you've got Training and Development you've got, you know, giving, offering extra vacation or, you know, there's companies out there that are now buying employees their lunches or providing lunches on site with huge, you know, read redo your lunch room, redo your space, physical therapy, making sure that I mean, the lists of different that and it's, it's overwhelming for, for companies to be like, Well, how am I going to implement all of this? So the awesome thing is that you are actually seeing companies starting to implement one thing at a time over a period of time. And, and they're not just saying, okay, yeah, we're going to do that they're intentionally making an effort to make their employees lives better. But it's, it's like anything else, it doesn't happen in one day, it doesn't happen in two it happens in, you know, days and months and years. And, but I have seen drastic improvements, you know, there was a time where, when I would walk into some plants, I'm like, Well, I'm not going to use the bathroom here. Because they were, you just knew, like, you walk in and you're like, oh, this place is disgusting. And now I've walked into some manufacturing companies, and I'm like, Oh, my God, I could eat off this floor. It's so clean, it's so pristine. It's, you know, they, they make a huge effort to keep the temperature from being, you know, extremely high, despite the fact that they're running these hats, you know, large machines. They've got huge fans, you know, and that's a huge that's a big deal. Especially when, you know, machinists, you know, back in the old day, you expect them to come home dirty and covered in grease. And that's, that's not, that's not the way that it is anymore. And, and trust me, I grew up my it's, you know, just saw my, my dad to see or doing work. I just thought he, you know, when I was a little when a little kid, he worked at a at a machine company, and he used to come home and he was filthy. But now those those companies you don't, that's not the way that you have to come home anymore. I mean, and there's always the exception. You know, if you've ever walked into a foundry, it's possible to keep a foundry clean. But anyways, I digress. I'm completely off on a tangent here. So tell me a little bit more. Obviously, we've talked about you going physically into these organizations. Tell me a little bit more about you know, what you your business, you know, does back at your, you know, do you do everything from sports medicine to then tell me a little bit more about that.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 17:58
So PT clinic again, we're celebrating our 50th year anniversary today.
Leighann Lovely 18:03
Seriously, it's today? Yeah, today is
Dr. Delaine Fowler 18:05
our day. So we're everybody's excited. And you know, I started my PT clinic helping about 15 people a day. And again, now we help 10,000 people a day, and we help a lot of people my clinic, I'm lucky to have a tremendous team of physical therapists who see everybody from that little kid who is on the spectrum, and their mom just wants them to walk up and down the stairs better, right. So we'll see that kind of issue all the way, you know, to our athletes and our industrial athletes are our people who get hurt on the job. And we really rehabilitate those people who have had surgeries, and all the way up to our, our 90 plus year olds who are live and kick in and say, Look, I just want to be able to, you know, swing my golf club without my shoulder hurting. And so we take a lot of pride in helping our community in Salisbury and in Concord, North Carolina, with our PT care. So it's a lot of fun. It's great to be a part of the community. You know, everybody thinks about physical therapists and all you only go there when you have like when you're an athlete or something like that. And I am really trying to change the paradigm that if it's musculoskeletal, if it's an ache or a pain, that's from your muscles or your joints, a physical therapist should be in your ring of care. You should be in the middle of that care. We love to communicate with our physicians, we love to communicate with chiropractors and acupuncturist and massage therapists, whoever is in that paradigm for you. We think physical therapists should be one of those people and so I try to get the word out as much as possible that you know, so because some people will like it. Well, my I have arthritis in my hands and like yes. But is that really why you're hurting? It could be just tissue tension, because you're getting tight. So yeah, yeah, yeah,
Leighann Lovely 19:58
I've come to understand stands so much more about, I see, I see a chiropractor. And I've come to understand so much more about, you know, the nervous system and understanding, you know, if you get that nervous system working properly, and you know, all of that kind of stuff, and I've seen a physical therapist multiple times throughout my, my life, I'm starting to get old now. So I can, you know, now check the box of all of the doctors that you know, I've had, and as you start to
Dr. Delaine Fowler 20:31
get older every day, yeah.
Leighann Lovely 20:33
And I completely agree you, you absolutely you need to, you know, have all of those individuals communicating. Because if they're not, it's like just throwing darts at the board, and hoping that you hit the right spot. But yeah, I, I still do the recommendations of my physical therapist and my chiropractor and keep myself, you know, straight as I hunching over in my chair.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 21:08
And so that's what I'm talking about physical therapy. Do
Leighann Lovely 21:12
I know sit up straight, like, oh, yeah, not my past.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 21:16
The dreaded P word, the posture or Yeah.
Leighann Lovely 21:20
And my posture is terrible. Like, I'll remind myself on a regular basis, like stop like hunching over, like, yeah, it's terrible.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 21:31
You see thing with a chair, when you sit in a chair quite a bit like I do a standing desk. So I, it took me a couple of months to train into it, to stand like I used to, I will be able to stand in the morning, but towards about two o'clock or so I'm like, not think anymore, let me sit down so I can think. But it took me about six weeks. And now I can stand and think and write and do all those things. So I like my, my standing mobility desk is like falling because I can put my feet up and I can put my feet in any way just move whatever I want. But the nice thing about chair is that you can take a towel and roll it up about this big and put it in your low back. And then that that automatically pulls you back. And so you don't even have to think about it. It's just there. So when you're driving when you're sitting in a chair, and I
Leighann Lovely 22:15
actually have a pillow that little, the little the little minute. However, I never actually
Dr. Delaine Fowler 22:22
you can't get back onto it.
Leighann Lovely 22:23
I never actually sit back I'm always on the end of my chair. Which is terrible. Like I always am on the end of my chair, always leaning forward always. And that's my, that's my horrible, like posture thing. And then by the end of the day, I'm like, Why do my elbows hurt? Because I'm always leaning on my elbows. I'm always you know, have my, my, you know, and if the if the audience could actually see us, you know, I'm putting my chin and my hand and by the end of the day and my face hurts because I'm like, doing all these goofy. I don't know, I my husband is my husband would come in to you. And he's like, you've got that look on your face. And I'm like, what look and he's like that stupid. Look, you get what you're deep in thought. And I'm like, Ah, thanks, honey. But I have friends who I've met. I'm actually met at work. who've known me for 15 one well, one my actually one of my best friends. She She says it too. She's like, you get this work. Look. She's like, and she goes, it's like the stupidest look. And I'm like, great. That's That's fabulous.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 23:32
When my when my middle son my nine year old is really if he's done this since he was little when he's really focusing he sticks his tongue out. Oh does see. Jordan, you know, like, Yeah,
Leighann Lovely 23:42
I do this thing with my lips. Apparently. Where am I pucker my lips or something? And I've had multiple people go, what are you doing with your lips? And I'm like, I don't know. Thinking, right? The game really hard. And then one day I actually saw my my grandfather doing something with his lips. And I was like, I wonder if that's what I do. He's like puckers his lips out. And I'm like, I bet you that's what I do. It looks really dumb.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 24:16
We all have we all have our studies or kind of crazy things we do.
Leighann Lovely 24:19
Yeah. Yes, we do. We all have our, like resting. I'm gonna say that for the rest of your face. But yeah,
Dr. Delaine Fowler 24:29
Yeah, I always say we're all beautifully and wonderfully made and all unique. And so we have to appreciate that uniqueness about ourselves and accept it for what it is.
Leighann Lovely 24:38
And now in the Zoom world and in all of the technology, I am forced to look at myself and realize the faces that I sometimes make and I'm going Oh, okay. So what are some what are some of the advice you give to people, whether they're, you know, standing all day working or sitting all day? I mean,
Dr. Delaine Fowler 24:59
Yeah, So so for people who work from home and people who are in offices, we were we weren't built to be still, whether it's sitting or standing, we were built to move, even, they did research on astronauts, and they put them up into space and said, Okay, when they sleep because there's no gravity, they're going to move, they're not going to move. Because they won't have the weight, their joints won't want, don't, don't need to readjust, they'll be happy. But the truth is, they move all the time. And in space, and almost as much as they do on Earth, while sleeping. And so I want to, for everybody to own the fact that our bodies and our brains are very much connected, that that we have to emotionally unwind, physically unwind within that rest time while we're sleeping. And so getting good rest, it's not just good for you to for just your brain and your body, but them together. So I always encourage people, like, if you want to have a better work life, getting that sleep and unwinding in that sleep and allowing yourself to unwind in that time is really, really important and finding a quality sleep. And then from a desk point, again, I call my desk, my mobility desk is a standing desk, but I can put my feet up, I can put my feet over on my desk, I can work like this, I can work like this, I can work straight on. So I give myself a lot of options to stand, I change my shoes out, I'll take my shoes off, I'll do all those things. So it's it's good to stay mobile. You know, you can do all sorts of split stance, like, put one foot behind the other to work. And all that is really good for you throughout the day. But just standing in one place, or sitting one place all day, it really is draining on our energy sources in our middle capacity throughout the day.
Leighann Lovely 26:59
Interesting. So I gotta go back to this in space thing. Yeah, so even. So I always assumed that the reason that your body you know, when at rest, that the reason that your body moved is because you were putting pressure in for a long period of time on on one side of your body, or you're putting pressure on on something and that you're adjusting for what you just said, because it's an uncomfort thing, or so even in, in rest in space when there is that that concern because there is no gravity, you have no pressure point. The brain is still saying that you should move. And why do you why do you think that is?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 27:49
I think again, I just think that our systems are built to move people are meant to move, we don't move enough. And in our in our societies today, we've devalued Exercise and Movement. And what that would what that really looks like for human beings, right? We've been using these big ol brains and saying, Well, we got to pick our brains, why do we need the rest of it? Right? This little meat pod that I'm in can just do whatever. But with why I think the astronauts move is because and why we move at night is because we're emotionally unwinding throughout the day. So I don't know if you've ever had an emotional release. I'm so lucky that as a student, as a PT student, I had this lady and she was lovely. I was trying to help her get her right shoulder. It was a phrase that she had a frozen shoulder. And we were working on it working on it. But we couldn't get that last like 20 degrees of flexion. She just could not get there. And so one day is like Okay, listen, I'm gonna stick my hand in your armpit. I'm gonna massage a muscle that's in there just to see I don't know, you know, I'm just gonna try this. Are you good with it? She's like, Yeah, we get we're having a lovely conversation laughing talking. I stuck my hand in her armpit and she lost it. Like full a full on ugly cry. And she said, I don't know why I'm crying. She's like, it doesn't hurt. She's like, I don't know why I'm crying. She cried three more times. We got the range of motion back. But in that moment, I realized that we get emotions and memories and all these things stuck somewhere. Occasionally, I wouldn't say they're all the time. But and if we're not moving enough, we're not allowing our emotional selves and our mental selves to have the full capacity of their our health. Right? We do it so so I think the astronauts move because they're they're physically manifesting their thoughts and emotions and they need to a way to escape.
Leighann Lovely 29:50
Interesting and wow, that and that's that's an amazing story. And and I think that you're very correct in that move. meant is is not just about the simple movement that there's there's more to it that it is our brains way of expressing. Because, again, you'll see that in, in a complete crowd, for instance, who's experiencing something profound or for you go to a concert, right? All of a sudden, you see everybody at the same time jumping up and down, and you're like, why is everybody's reaction to jump up and down at a very, you know, excite exciting sound? Why isn't it? Right? And then all of a sudden, you go to, you know, a different venue where it's a very emotional song and you see everybody go very still, you know, you don't, it's, it's almost, like you said primal, it's, it's like your body is natural reaction is it follows the brains, obviously, the brain, you know, controls the body, but those, you know, you don't see somebody jumping up and down. Typically, when it's a very emotional, you know, sad or profound, you don't typically somebody jumping up and down, right?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 31:11
So the interesting thing about so even even a person who doesn't have their sight, if they are running and win the race, they still go into victory, even if they can't see that, you know, they still so we as as human beings, we have our signs for you know, I am victorious I am this I am that, why? Why do moms, dads probably do it too. But why do moms when they have their babies on their hip? Are they doing? Rock? Right, right? I don't hold my four year old all that much anymore, but I usually keep what usually wants me to hold him while we're at church. And like, there'll be music going on. So I just find myself like so, so funny, but I don't do it. If he's not I'm not wanting,
Leighann Lovely 31:57
right. No, no, I, I always whenever I was holding my, my daughter, and she's five now so I can barely pick her up and hold her for any length of time.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 32:09
Those suckers get heavy,
Leighann Lovely 32:11
I know, she tries to jump in my lap. And I'm like, I have to brace myself. Now. I'm like, Oh, my God. But But you're right, there is universal things that people do without, without even knowing that they're doing it. blind individual, even people who, you know, people who are deaf, they will make the same, you know, almost types of noises. And they can't even hear themselves. But they will still you know, and those who do make noises who do have some verbal, they will still make the, you know, ah, when they're excited? Yes. But they don't they don't hear that there are universal things that are ingrained in us from whatever, right, something it's the same thing again, you know, if you were to start to study animal behavior and things like that, why is it that animals that have never seen each other from across, you know, hundreds of miles of way? All do an act the same way? If they're the same species? Right? You know, then we can go into the whole psychology of how is it that the whales in the ocean seeing a new? Or is it whales or dolphins?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 33:18
Yeah, dolphins with my kids, we're talking about how different animals in the ocean communicate? And how, like, all the whales have a different song. And every year, it's different. Yeah, that's just incredible. And yeah, people are a lot like that. So and it kind of goes back to what you were talking about why, why why do people not self advocate? Why are Why are we sitting stuck with our employers, instead of you know, speaking up and having an outlet for it, we have some incredible employers. And so if if you have a complaint about your area, or something going wrong in your area, you can record it and goes on a task list. We've solved one big problem for one of our employers in there, where we're helping prioritize those task lists in an order of physical demand. And, and and how many people it affects, right? So it could be a low physical demand, but if it's affecting 400 people, maybe that's a priority, right? So and, and so we're helping that them along and have have certainly crunched down on their tasks, but it gives the employee an outlet, even if there's somebody who, you know, doesn't like to make waves or whatever. And I think sometimes, if we've had an upbringing to where, like mom and dad are the authority, they are right teacher is authority, he or she is right, you know, in and you're lost in that versus let me find my own voice. You may end up being that employee that's like, well, I can't say anything, even though like my wrist is killing me. So I appreciate companies who will give people a way to self advocate And also we need to remember to, on the employee side, assume one of my HR friends the other day said, assume good intentions. If we just started with, let's assume good intentions, until it's proven otherwise, on both sides of that coin, and to be kind to your manager, because a lot of times first line managers like, this is the first time they're doing this, this is like their first rodeo, and trying to figure all of it out, and you want them to be the expert, because because they have the title of manager or HR person or whatever. They're still growing too. And so I, we try to talk a lot about that as consultants as well. I tried to tell our athletic trainers, who might have been athletic trainers for a long time and doing consulting with with us in our industries and say, look like you're gonna run into managers with the managers for a long time, you got ones that were just last week in the employee shoes, and now they're managers. So let's, let's give them the benefit of the doubt and help them along.
Leighann Lovely 36:02
Right, right. And those in those first time managers are often you know, everybody's going to run to them, they have a relationship with all the employees, everybody's going to unload on them. And they're gonna go, oh, I can't go to my manager with all of this, because you know, now they're trying to navigate what that looks like,
Dr. Delaine Fowler 36:22
right? Yeah, my husband's. He's, he had a small management group, before he took his new job, and now he's over managers. And so that's been a new dynamic for him. It's been fun to watch him grow in saying like, how do I, it's not really about me, managing all the people under my team, it's about me helping my managers be better managers, right. And so it's kind of fun to watch his progress as he develops. And then and to take that in as myself to you. I have a I have a team of 50 people and 40 and 40 to 50 people that that work in our company. And so, yeah, it's easy for me just to pick up the phone and solve a problem that that's maybe probably not what I should be doing. And so I try to remind myself, like, let me let my manager sign. Let me let our CEO shine and do the right things.
Leighann Lovely 37:09
And that's amazing. So I want to point that out again, before we start to wrap up, and I asked you the question the season, you said 15 years? It is because this is not going to go out today. It is September 1 today, and you've celebrating 15 years in business. Congratulations. That's absolutely amazing. You started off with just you and how did your business start?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 37:35
Yeah, so I had a front office person, me part time and a PT assistant part time and then I had to work another job to make ends meet. So so for about three years, I I worked part time in my business as I grew that PT assistant to a full time and kept working my other job. And then I was pregnant with my first son. And I took this leap of hiring this amazing PT and I and she was really taking a risk on us too, because she was already she had already been a manager. And I asked her and I'll never forget, I asked her in her interview, I'm like, you already have a great job, I cannot pay you what you're making. And I was like, why would you want to come work for me. And she said, Because I have a six month old at home that I see before she gets up in the morning. And after she goes to bed. Because as I managed a role she was working 1214 hours a day. And so I we I gave her her her time with her children back and gave her a steady job to work in and she gave me an amazing time. So that was 10 years ago, we just celebrated her 10 year anniversary. That's correct. And those those kinds of stories that's really it wasn't me that did it. It was all the people along the way that we're diving in to say we care about people and my you know, I can't I can't be in 22 states at one time, right? But we can find people who care about people who are we have a in our mission statement that we are a group of happy engaging passionate professionals. And so if we can show up like that every day for our clients and our employees like we're doing the right thing
Leighann Lovely 39:16
that that is an absolute amazing story and wow in sometimes that's that's what it takes is finding the people who who want to have that journey with you. However however selfish it may be, excuse me however selfish it may be. It becomes a an absolute beautiful story and a beautiful Oh, that sounds so cool. I was gonna say in a beautiful friendship.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 39:46
You know, and and I I love I love people in general and I care about people a lot. So it's it's fun to work with people that are just fun to work with. Right Yeah, in and keep growing, there are a lot of people to help. Our big goal is to help 50,000 People now, right? We're helping 10,000 People now, we want to help 50,000 people, well, we have the system, do it, we have all the data show it works. And and now we just are excited to help whoever wants to open that door.
Leighann Lovely 40:21
That's amazing. So I'm going to ask you the question of the season. What do you think will go down in the history books? From what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 40:33
Yes, well, I definitely don't think the world will ever be the same. And, you know, in the last three years we've had aI was happening before the last three years for sure. I've I certainly had different things that you would have to pay for that would write things for you and do things for you, a Netflix, Amazon, that's all AI. But with the Donna Donna, these more public domains that are free for people, and the start of computer learning computer model learning. I think that that in itself, the pandemic, it's going to change everything about how we all do our jobs. And I think the lesson we need to learn is that even though we all get older every day, there's no reason to stop learning, we have to keep learning because if not, we're gonna get replaced even as a physical therapist, even as an HR person, even as a podcaster. You know, is chat GPT good enough to replace the podcaster? No, because a podcaster is relaying off of what the guest is saying. And the guest is talking to so just the new jobs that are going to come out of this last three years, between the pandemic how fast we were able to create a vaccine from genetic, you know, genes and RNA, like, that's just mind boggling that we'll be able to tack attack, you know, outside sources that are at bay, you know, are keeping us at bay from a society to grow. It's just gonna be wild to watch. But I think the the lesson we have to learn is that we can't stop learning, we have to keep figuring out those next steps to keep us as a human race together. To love one another to care about one another. I, I borrow my kids from being online too much, because we have friends down the street. So I'd rather than going hang out with the friends down the street than the greater world even if they're best friends online. I'm like, Yeah, but they're not with you. Right? You need to be in their energy. You need to be with them and move with them, not sit out on the couch and and play with them. They are that's all well and good. And it can help people connect when they need to. But it's not a it's not a solution for community and care and all that. So I think that even though we have this world that's so vast now and like, Yeah, I'm calling you from your work together. I'm in North Carolina, where you are. And it's just so I think that learning how to connect and learning how to love one another even if we know our worlds are much bigger is really important.
Leighann Lovely 43:20
I that is an awesome, awesome answer. And I remember the first time like this was this was pokeymon go time. Okay, so this was quite a few years ago. But I remember the first time I saw a little he wasn't so little but he was he was probably about 12. He looked like he was 17 he was so tall. Such he was just a huge kid. His dad was a very large man. And I remember he and his friend were outside. And I'm like, I looked at my husband. I said, What are they doing? And he goes, I'm not really sure. And I'm like, do they have like an iPhone or an iPad? So they were outside they were they were outside playing? They must have been like, hey, go outside and play but they they had they had like a, an iPad. And they were doing this whole Pokeyman go thing and I'm like, I don't get it. Like, what? What happened to the days of kids just going outside and kicking a soccer ball around? And you know, and then we learned about this whole Pokeyman go thing happening? And then you just saw every button like, what is this? Like what is happening to the world where you can't even go outside and play without technology in your hand. I mean, and obviously this was many years ago, but this was still like to me who's 42 years old. I wrote in the summer, I rode my bike to my girlfriend's house. We then rode our bikes all over the city. We went to the beach and we went but again, we didn't have some phones. I didn't get my first cell phone until I was 18 years old 19 Sometime in that time period, and it was this, it was huge.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 45:11
I had the break that I was not allowed to touch unless it was an emergency in my car.
Leighann Lovely 45:15
Yeah, my parents had a had a car phone, it was actually it was actually installed in their car. And I used to pretend that I like was talking, because I was cool. But, you know,
Dr. Delaine Fowler 45:30
I nology it's amazing. Like, you know, technology's amazing. But it's not a replacement for connecting with one another. And it's not a it's not a replacement for not moving. Again, I think our mental health is suffering because we're not moving enough. And so I throw my kids outside as as much as possible not to get them out of my hair. I go and sit outside as much as possible. One of my friends was like, I was complaining about something she like, you need to check your vitamin D right. Now my mind would be fine, because I'm outside.
Leighann Lovely 46:00
Right? And that's the other thing is how like, mental health is suffering? Well, vitamin D, how many? How frequently do people sit in their homes versus sitting outside in the sun. And that is, you know, my doctor still to this day, in the winter will recommend make sure you take your vitamin D because you're not outside as as often. Well, how I mean, that's got to be weighing on the world, because we're not outside as much as we used to be. Well, anyways, we're,
Dr. Delaine Fowler 46:33
Those are mine. Those are my three, I appreciate your your thoughts, too, because it's, it's important. Yeah, it's important for us to raise a generation of the next generation in the right way. And to help people who work really hard. I always say, during the pandemic, when I would go to some of our facilities, one of them is a grocery store. And I would go there and almost start crying saying thank you to those employees for showing up to work. Because if they didn't show up, like I'm from the south, but I cannot grow a carrot like I can't, I don't hunt, I can't shoot a gun. So So and while I probably could shoot one, but I'm not gonna hit anything. And so to to have people who are showing up to work so I can have food on my table, I can feed my children, that's really, really important. And so I just really appreciate people doing the things that make the world go round.
Leighann Lovely 47:24
Yep. Oh, yeah. And that brings me back to something I was going to say before, when you when we were talking about the whole thing about moving, we were back when humans first existed, that is what the body was made for. We weren't made for having these high, intelligent brains, we had them. We were capable of making tools. But our bodies were created in order to have the capacity to hunt, to gather, to be able to be on the move from the time that we woke up in the morning until the time that we went to bed. And that, you know, and we don't do that anymore. We now go to the grocery store and buy our food. So I'm gonna guess that part of the reason that our bodies are created to move is because that's what we needed to do in order to survive. Right?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 48:13
Yeah, again, it's so primal. It's so fundamental, just to move in and to allow that instead of to fight that kind of like we talked about your lizard brain, right? The, you know, we're always talking my god fight your lizard brain. Well, maybe in this case, we don't need to fight our lizard brain, we just need to give into it and to be active. And once you crest over, oh, I am a human moving. I'm not just a human being, then then we can really get somewhere. I send my kids to a particular school. And I used to Jopling say I'm like, yeah, they move more than now I say no, they move they move more like they have more recess. They have more experiential learning where they're actually, instead of learning about the plane on screen, they're going outside and finding the plants. Right, yeah, all those things. And so I send my kids to their school because I know they move more. And that's more important to me than any book learning that they're doing during the day.
Leighann Lovely 49:06
Awesome. If somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Dr. Delaine Fowler 49:11
Absolutely. So they are welcome to contact us and on our website, accelerate-pt.com And you can click on my name and email me right there. So that's the easiest way to get a hold of me. And if you want to talk to my team there, everybody's on there all the time so we can hit you back and love to chat.
Leighann Lovely 49:36
Awesome. This has been such an amazing conversation. I really appreciate you coming on and sharing. You know about yourself and your story. Yeah, I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.
Dr. Delaine Fowler 49:49
No I, appreciate you having me on me. This was great. Super Amazing as a host, so appreciate you.
Leighann Lovely 49:54
Yeah. Well, thank you. You have a great day. Thank you again for listening to letste Hawk HR I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible so don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us, like us or share us have a wonderful day
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
employees, companies, physical therapist, move, managers, athletic trainers, employers, pt, people, musculoskeletal, helping, brains, sitting, put, learning, unwind, huge, years, body, job
Wednesday Sep 13, 2023
Wednesday Sep 13, 2023
With 30 years in corporate helping fortune 500 companies grow their brands Sara Hanaway took the leap into entrepreneurship. Now as a speaker, coach and consultant she focuses on helping people and teams embrace change improve resilience and navigate through chaos. As someone that has experience personal and professional change, Sara knows all to well to help others navigate this. Tune in as this is a conversation that you don’t want to miss.
Contact -Sara Hanaway
LinkedIN – linkedin.com/in/sarajhanaway
Website - sarahanaway.com
E-mail - sara@sarahanaway.com
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started. From the day she died to being let go from her 22 year career at Harley Davidson to having to shut down the iconic ever rude engine brand. Our guest Sara Hanaway knows a thing or two about change customer experience leadership. Sarah has helped a fortune 500 companies grow and expand their brand planned large scale events and launched too many products and programs to count. After almost 30 years in corporate world, Sara decided after taking many deep breaths and creating way too many pros and cons lists to take a leap and leave to start her own speaking and coaching business. Sarah is passionate about shifting the conversation that businesses can make employees wellbeing a priority while at the same time producing results. She loves helping her clients and audience realize the power that they have within themselves to push through discomfort and fear to get the change they desire and excel in life and business. While she loves what she does. When she's not speaking or working with clients. She can be found writing, running, cooking, breaking out in a dance party or in her favorite role, which is being an aunt. Please welcome this awesome guest Sara Hanaway. Sara, welcome. I'm so excited to have this conversation.
Sara Hanaway 02:38
Thank you, Leighann. I'm really excited to be here with you today.
Leighann Lovely 02:41
Your bio, you know, obviously is like starts off with a bang. And so I'm sure that there's plenty of people who, you know, listen to that, you know, I died. That's a That's a crazy statement to hear. So I'm really excited to have you tell us a little bit about yourself. And your story. Like, I got to know.
Sara Hanaway 03:05
Yeah, it's, um, it's a pinch. It's how I start all of my presentations. When I speak to teams and organizations, I actually tell the full story of how I died. I'll give you a slight synopsis today, because it really is the foundation for everything that I use in my life and business. And so 25 years ago, a truck came into my lane. And basically the accident reconstructionist said, If my car would have been over a fraction or a millimeter, the truck would have went right over me and I wouldn't be here. So I was stopped on a guardrail. It took them about two and a half hours to get me out. They had to bring the jaws of life I went to a local hospital where they then flight for life me to freighter, which is a big hospital here in Milwaukee. And I was there and this is where it gets fuzzy. I was in ICU for at least a week, but it might have been 10 days I can't remember. I was intubated. I broke all my ribs on flailing fracture one side I had a collapsed lung so I couldn't breathe on their own. So when the pandemic hit a few years ago, when people were talking about being on machines to breathe, I'm like, you don't want to be on one. It is not fun. I remembered it and I had a lot of vivid memories. And it took me about two years to really recover from the accident fully like to feel more back normal. You can't tell about me I actually do have permanent damage. I have limited motion on my left side and I developed a heart condition because of that. So at the whopping age of 30 Something I'm sitting in a cardiologists office and all these little nice old people which I have to be careful because I'm now one of them are like what are you doing here? And I'm like, Yeah, you can't tell but I have a heart condition. and, and really what that taught me is it taught me and became the foundation of everything I used for customer experience, which was my almost 30 year career in the corporate world, but also how to thrive and roll with change, and really what resilience is all about. And so those are the things that I'm using in my new business adventure, to help other people really push through the discomfort that happens with life. Life cannot happen without change. And our biggest struggles, as we all say, this end up being our most huge triumphs, even though they're really rough to go through. So I'm trying to use all of that knowledge and help other people as well. So yes, I did code twice, I forgot the important thing. I did code twice in the Hello, helicopter. That's how I say I died. I did not know that. The the medics came and told me that in my room, I was like, I had no idea that that was not part of part of my knowledge. Right.
Leighann Lovely 06:00
Wow, that that is absolutely amazing. Well, I mean, not amazing that you had to go through. I mean, the recovery portion of that had to have been horrific. But the statement that just stands out to me is that the feeling of triumph, after experiencing something that is so hard, and it's so true, the harder it is to get through something, the more triumph we have, the more you know, wow moment that, that at the end of it, we go, Oh, my God, I I did that I made it through that I survived that. And for you, it truly was sort of survival.
Sara Hanaway 06:45
It was it was it was survival. But also at the same time, one thing I noticed is you don't notice the progress you're making when it's something that takes that long, like a year and a half after my accident, I was seeing a specialty doctor because I just didn't have stamina, and I still couldn't breathe fully in my left lung. And they did all the tests and the lung was fine. And like it didn't, it just didn't feel right. And he finally explained it to me in a way of you aren't supposed to recover that fast your body went through a trauma. And what happens when your body goes through a trauma is that it ages he goes even women who give birth, when you give birth, you're going through a trauma. And the reason every doctor says it takes a full year for you to get back into a rhythm for your body to get is because your body aged and went through a trauma it can it'll go back and it did eventually he goes, but that's why you're tired. That's why when you work an eight hour day, you're you're exhausted because you're still healing from that trauma. And it was that moment that I realized I had made so much progress, because after the accident, I was back at work full time about six or seven months afterwards. And I worked at Harley Davidson at the time. And so I went back during an anniversary, which anyone who works events, which I did, those are long hours. Thankfully, that one I did not pull 13, 14 hour days because I physically couldn't. So I literally did a shift and and that was the first time that I was back full full in full gear other than that I was working part time, and you don't realize the progress. And until someone else pointed out to you when the journey is that long. And that's one of the reasons I wanted to help coach other people is so that you can see the progress because anyone who hears my story is like what I developed a complication about a month after going home to the hospital. And so the doctors like if you do not get up and move, you are going to have to have surgery. My long was sleeping fluid. And I was like, well, that motivated me. I didn't want to have surgery. And I just started slowly doing things. And it started with easy little things like right, I walked up the steps. I rolled the exercise bike for three minutes. And then the next day it was two, and then two more minutes. So five. So those are the things that I started to learn going well, that is progress, right? And a lot of times, especially in the corporate world, in the business world, we always measured progress at the end, like ooh, the the project launch nice, go on to the next thing. And we would forget the milestones in between. And when I became a manager of people, because of my accident and knowing all those milestones that I did. I started making sure that we were paying attention to the little milestones so that when we got to the big thing the team was already like, yeah, we launched it, that's great, but they knew they were making progress along the way. So that's what I mean by setup foundation for me to like really learn how to lead and be as a human and being in this world, because you learn a lot really fast when you're not ready for it.
Leighann Lovely 10:06
And that's your So corr., you know, I'm flashing back to in my audience knows that I have bipolar disorder, I'm flashing back to a time in my life where I was wildly unhealthy and I never really, you don't you don't realize, as you're going through in, in projects that you're doing, you you get to the point where you're like, Yay, we're we've gotten there. And it's such a brief fleeting feeling, especially in the business world of you, you celebrate it, and then you're like, your boss or whoever is like, okay, all hands on deck to the next one. And you're like, Well, wait, wait, I don't even get to, you know, finish my drink. You know, I've got a whiskey here celebrating it. And they're like, yep, Nope, don't dump it out. Let's go. Yep. But and I look back on my history. And I'll look back at pictures of myself when I was really, really unhealthy. And when somebody who has a mental health disorder, often you can see it just in in their demeanor, the way they stand the way they look the way they. And I'll look back at pictures of myself. And I'm like, wow, I didn't realize I even looked that way. And then you look at me now. And for me, when I was really unhealthy, I was extremely thin, I was under 100 pounds. And there were times where I would look at pictures, and I go, who is that? And my parents would go, that's you? And I would look again and go, Oh my God, why didn't anybody tell me I looked so sickly. And they're like, Well, we tried. And I'm like, What do you mean, you try it? And they're like, well, we would we would tell you you need to eat, you know, you're really thin. You look really unhealthy. And you'd be like, oh, yeah, I am really thin like I and you would think it was a compliment. And I was like, oh, oh, because it was really unhealthy. It was really. And now I look back at that and go, Wow. Well, now I'm a little overweight, and I've gone the other way. Anyways, I'm happy and healthy. The point being is that in life in business and everything, you are completely correct. We don't celebrate the milestones. We celebrate the end, which makes the everything in between that much more difficult, because you're like, oh, today was a really rough day. But what did you accomplish? Yep. Like, some days, you're like, Oh, God, it was so hard. But at the end of the day, the amount of work that's that you got done, or the amount of, you know, the fact that you've completed a huge portion of a project goes unnoticed. Because management wants to see the end result, often. And they forget that within that end result there are there are so many triumphs.
Sara Hanaway 12:42
Yeah, and for me, one of the things that I, I learned, and I was really good at helping other people not always good for myself, so is that you can balance well being while still producing results. Because from my accident, I was getting better. I mean, I started from having to learn how to have to sit up again. You know, I had to walk again, I wasn't, I didn't have to relearn how to walk. But after not walking for 10 days, these are all things your muscles are like, Screw you, we're not doing anything, it was much nicer laying in a bed. So you have to start all over and do all of these things. Or the little things you take for granted. Like I couldn't wash my own hair for the longest time. Like my mom had to come home and wash my hair. I mean, none of us think about that when we get in the shower, and there's like a washing my hair. And it's all of a sudden, like, I still to this day, every once in a while I'm like, wow, you're washing your own hair, which sounds crazy. But because of that, I really learned that I wanted my team to have well being and that meant that I needed to help them recognize the little things or even recognize when they're having a bad day. Like, hey, you still accomplish something today, what did you accomplish? Or it would be things like you came to my office. And finally we're done being on the hamster wheel of trying to solve the problem yourself. And you pulled the help chain. Um, like, that's a really great thing that you did today. Well, but I you know, and then they'll be like, but I should have solved it. I'm like, you solve 90% of the problems 10% You bring to me, that's a good thing. These are the things that that we should do. And what happened is my team is like, Well, wait a minute, my well being matters. And I'm like, Yes, we can still produce results. And we did all of my teams. I had phenomenal growth. We did great things with it. Harley Davidson MBRP. But I balanced their well being at the same time and I was really passionate about that. But I find in a lot of corporations. It's exactly what you said. I want to see the end result and then we don't even take time to celebrate that end result. It's like great job. Okay, go and it's like no, no, no, no We take time to celebrate that as well, we have other work to do. But you can do both. And I firmly believe that is something that's missing in the corporate world, is when you focus only on the end results, and not on people as human beings. That's why we get quiet quitting. That's why we get great resignation. That's why we have disengagement. And these are all things in my new business that I'm I'm trying to work with people on, especially new managers who've never led a team. I didn't, I didn't know what I was doing. And these are all things that it's like, well, I want to be treated as a human being not as a cog in a wheel. Right.
Leighann Lovely 15:39
And it's, and you bring up a really awesome point, the quiet quitting the, because when people when people don't feel that their manager, and I'm not saying that their managers don't notice, but the managers get so wrapped up in like we need to produce, we need to get this out the door, we need to finish this project, they often they also forget that because their managers, you know, if those if that's middle management, in that we're not talking about sea level, you know, we're middle management is also under the pressure to get this project done, get this project done, get your team to do this project. And then you know, the C suite is looking at it from a financial standpoint of, we need to get this out the door so that we can get the next thing done. And they're not the ones actually doing the work. So when it's when it's completed, their sense of of triumph is very kind of subdued, because they're like, Okay, great, the team got it done. Let's move on to the next. So they're not feeling so, you know, there's there's that missing link of Yeah, because the C suite didn't go through the pains to get it done. They don't have that sense of oh, great job, great. It's the people who are actually doing the work and the people who are actually doing the work have the pressure from the top down. And the top down, obviously, the higher up you get, the less the triumph is because they weren't in the in, you know, in the gutter is doing the work.
Sara Hanaway 17:10
Yeah, I think the manager level, which is where I like to focus, a lot of they get, I call it the screw, they get it from the top, and they get it from the bottom, because they're trying to support their team, and they're trying to deliver the results. And, you know, in full candor, I was not good all the time with myself, like my team would even tell me, you should practice what you preach. Because I was, you know, getting it from, you know, wanting to make sure we hit our goals, but at the same time supporting my team. And I would have to learn the lesson over and over again, even though I was really good at doing it with my team. And I knew all this from my accent, my life and my career, I would be like, I would get to the point that I would be so exhausted. And it's like, you aren't practicing what you preach. And that is not a good leadership practice. And one of my favorite stories, though, is, as I as I moved up the chain in the corporate world, and I became a leader of people, I prefer a leader of people than manager or supervisor, because I believe in a leader has power with people not power over I'm that's just my philosophy of leadership in general. And the term manager just is full of power over instead of power with. And when I became a leader, one of the things I promised myself is I wouldn't forget what it took of all the work that we do, because literally we would all say it. The C suite is up in their office. They don't do the work. They don't they they don't understand what it takes. And a couple years ago, I had someone on my team, she had just graduated college. So brand new in the role learning lots, and we were having a one on one. And I was like I'm, I'm I'm not understanding why you're struggling so much. And what why this is taking so long. And she looked right at me. And she's like, You have had 25 years to do this. You can do what I'm doing right now in your sleep because you've done it over and over. I'm on your one, Sarah, I'm on your one. And I went, Whoa, you are right. You haven't developed the innate skill to repeat this process over and over. Not the way not the way I do it. But just the process in general. She's like, so it takes me longer. So if it takes you an hour, add an hour or two for me. I was like, that's a good reminder. And then we would have dialogue. I'm like, Well, how long do you think this would take and those kinds of things because it was one of those learning moments of Yes, I can do something much quicker but someone brand new can't in my setting my expectations for her way up here wasn't a valuable one. And that's what I use as an example when I work with managers all the time. because we do that we know how to do something so much faster. And we have the, I was listening to your last episode, where you said something that I say quite often, it's just faster for me to do it myself. And it's like, that is not the right phlosophy.
Leighann Lovely 20:19
Right. And that's in that's as you were saying that, you know, that's what scares me about my own business. Because I'm like, there's going to come a time where I'm going to have to turn over this work. And I'm going to have to put in the time, and I'm going, you know, into that person. And I'm going to have to remind myself on a regular basis, because I'm not a control freak, by any means. However, I am a very much i, it needs to be done in this way, for this reason, kind of kind of person, like I want it done this way. But I'm going to have to start to let go of that a little bit and allow other people to find their way. And in the way that works for them. And I've been very successful at coaching other people, coaching other people at reminding them that, you know, hey, you have to, you have to allow other people to find their flavor, you have to allow other people to find their, you know, what really syncs with their brain. But the actual doing it for my own business scares the crap out of me, even though I know all of this, I'm a highly self aware person, I'm very aware of, you know, when I say something to somebody, and all of a sudden, something comes up. And I also, you know, have a tendency to say stupid stuff. And I and I know it when I say it, because I'll look and go, Oh, crap, the response to the especially with my husband, you know, I'll say it and then I go, oops, that's not going to go over well. Because I am, I'm very, you know, very self aware. And that, and that's what scares the living daylights out of me is when I hire my first person. For my own business. I know already the problems that I'm going to have, which is I'm going to start off with the micromanagement of you got to do it this way. And then I'm gonna go no, no, no, no, no, no, no, stop, Leon, stop, stop trying to micromanage they can they're this is an adult, who you give them the, this is what I need, this is the end result that I need, here are the tools to get there. I'm sure that you can figure out how to get the end result with these tools. You don't have to do it exactly like this. You know, I'm not a doctor, I don't they don't either. They don't have to cut this exact mark in order to not kill somebody, you know. They're and for me, and for many I know, there's many managers out there who are the same way like you have to do it precisely. It doesn't always have to be done the same way, as long as you're getting that same end result. And everybody always thinks that their way is the best. And not everybody is right, because not everybody can be right. Right. Right. And so, and I know that I'm that much. You know, when my husband says it all the time he goes, You always think you're right. And I'm like, Well, of course I do. Of course I do. But I'm also I'm also always willing to take feedback from anybody. I love feedback. I love people who are willing to say stop that. I don't believe that's the best way. Can we try it this way? And I'm open to that. But it has, I have to have somebody who's willing to match my, I guess my boldness, my tenacity. And there are a lot of people out there who don't match that, especially. And also in, in the in, in the women's world right now. Like, there are a lot of women who are a lot more timid than, than me, I'm not a timid woman by any means. Sarah, you are not a timid woman by any means. But there are a lot of women out there who still remained, you know, are like that. And don't get me wrong. There are a lot of men who are timid, but there are less men who are and more who are willing to stand up and say, Nope, not going to do it that way. Let's talk about how we can do it a different way. That's just, you know, and I'm happy to see that the world is changing. And I'm going off on a complete tangent, but I'm in the business world, that's just how it's been. And so I've, you know, again, I already see what my issues are going to be. And I hope that other managers out there are willing to when you work with them, that they're open to seeing that they're open to understanding they're open. So that kind of leads me into my next question with you, you know, what are some of the areas that you focus specifically on when you go in? Do you do you do start off with speech, do you start out or doing a you know, talking points do you go in And coach large teams, how do you engage and work with companies?
Sara Hanaway 25:04
That's a really great question. And you have so many good nuggets in what you just did. So I'm gonna go off those actually wasn't a bad tangent there, it's perfect. Um, so when I work with a company, it all starts, like most of us do with an intake form and understanding what your needs are, or your team's needs are. So there's a, there's a process behind that chatting with you. And then I share up what are the what I think are the best ways to go. But the managers I work with, or the directors or the the leaders know their team the best. So I'll give an example. I just did a presentation to a team. They're going their company's going through a merger. And their leader reached out to me because she wanted to make sure they were taking care of themselves. Because we get so bogged down in the day to day she's like, this is a big change. I know, there's worry, could you come in? And as we did the intake form, I told her, I said, Well, you know, what would be ideal is to do like a two hour workshop with your team around change. And she's the expert of her team. And she's like, my team is really quiet. And we're going to do this virtual. And change is a heavy topic. And, and so I, as much as I want to do a workshop, I don't think that'll work. Can you come in and just do a talk, I said, What if I come in and present to the team, but I do a worksheet before, so they have pre work. So a lot of the exercises we would have been doing as a group was in that pre work so that they could prime themselves for change. And we ended up having a it actually was an hour and a half, long discussion. And we had a great discussion afterwards. But it was all about how they manage through change. So my two areas of focus when I work with businesses are either on change, whether it's in this instance, how you manage through change, or if your team rolls out a lot of things that change the work that your company does. So this team actually had that as well. So ironically, their questions at the end was the other part of the content, which is, hey, I have to roll out this change to this team, what do I do so we spent some time on that, as well, because those are two different things like how you manage your own change versus how you manage it with others. And then the other big thing I really work on and that I'm very passionate with is helping managers move from doers to leaders. So as you were talking, there were two two stories that jumped into my head, when I first became a leader of a team and I had people be a doer is a producer, you get stuff done. And all the skills you use as a doer, you still need as a leader, you just have to shift how you use them. So instead of solving all the problems, you're helping your team learn to solve the problems. So you're helping your team get those critical skills that you learned when you were a doer so that they can build up their skills. But when I first started delegating, and I share this when I when I talk or coach, teams, I did not know how to delegate, I when I first delegated I did exactly what you were talking about Leon, this is how I want you to do it. This is the order Bubble bubble. That is not how you delegate, you don't tell them how to do that you give them this is the end result I need. And for me, a lot of times I couldn't articulate what the end result was because I never had to do that. Because before I just got the assignment, I figured it out in my head and not to explain it. So my team would come back to me and I'm like, well, that's not what I want. And of course, they spent hours on something they're like, that's not what you wanted. And so I had to learn how to do all that. So we spend a little bit of time on delegation, I told and I'm still not always good at it, I have to remind myself that it doesn't have to be the way I do it it, we just need to have the end result. And the other thing you said that I coach people on is feedback. So one of the things that I hear a lot, especially from HR professionals, and I get it because they're like because even the directors in the C suite don't know how to do this is how do you give people feedback. And the secret is it has to be actionable feedback. And the other secret I talk about is two things. Feedback is subjective. What Leann tells you to do, and you move to a different manager, they're going to tell you the exact opposite. Because it's subjective. Feedback is not fact i to enjoy feedback, but I have learned what to take and what to throw out. Be like, Yes, here it is. But what I find is most managers don't give actionable feedback. They'll say something like, You know what? Your I'll use an example for me If you're intimidating, okay, what does that mean? Right? What am I supposed to do with that, and this manager just said, you need to stop intimidating people. That does not help me that does not give me anything. But I am a person who likes to figure things out. Because the last thing I want to do is intimidate people. That is not how I want to come across. Well, I started observing my own behavior. And I realized what it was, in every meeting, we were in, I talked first, right? I spoke up, and then people didn't feel comfortable. So then I just learned to, I'm not going to speak right away, I'm going to let others talk. Now, when it was something controversial, the team would look at me to then bring it up because they didn't feel comfortable. And that that was not the same thing. And so then I learned, but that wasn't actionable feedback, right? That that that manager gave me, or for 10 years of my career at Harley, I had a boss who would do performance reviews, and all he would do is give me a thumbs up and go keep going. How does this help me? I mean, great. I'm assuming I'm doing a good job. But right. I'm human I, I even know. Like, I think my way is right. I know that's not the right thing. I can list out the mistakes I make, because I'm pretty critical of myself. And so we spend a lot of time on feedback exercises, and what is actionable feedback? And how do you not do the sandwich method, which is, you're really good, but no, so I actually invented something when I was at Harley, because no one taught me how to do this a process that I have carried throughout my entire career that as a matter of fact, BRP started using it and sharing it with their managers, other managers at Harley did is I created the standard form process that I use with employees. And it made it a dialogue, I actually asked them to tell me what they thought they did well on where they're where they met or exceeded expectations, because those were the words we use to see where they're at. So we could have a dialogue. So if an employee said, like, seated here, and I know the HR criteria, or the company criteria for exceeds, didn't meet, that we could have a conversation upfront going, Hey, you did great on that. But here's what exceeds means. And if you're looking to get exceeds, here's the things that we need to do. That's actionable feedback. So for me, what I do is I work with teams, so I can do workshops, I can come in and present. Or I can work individually. With a team. I like workshops, just because you can get other managers, you can hear different things, but I do a level. But that was a very long winded answer to your question. But
Leighann Lovely 32:45
so here's so i. So I first day on the job a long time ago, I and it probably wasn't the first day I met a new salesperson. And this was I was early in my career and she walked up to me, she introduced herself. And then she went on to say, a lot of people struggle working with me because they don't like me have a roof over what? Okay. She then proceeded to say sometimes I come off as being harsh. Sometimes I when I speak, I do not mean to. And I went Oh, okay. Now I was really early in my career. I had no idea what that meant. As I continued to work with her, I thought numerous times, wow, that was really harsh. Like, wow, that was really brief. And I went Wait a second. But she told me, she warned me of this, that there may be times where and that she's not meaning two years later, what I realized was that she was completely self aware that she sometimes rubbed people the wrong way. But that she wasn't fully sure how to change that. Or why? Because nobody had really sat down with her and been like, well, this is why you come off as being brass. You are very, she was also a very strong, very driven, very successful woman. Point blank sheet. I learned from every time I would go into it. She was a salesperson, every time I would go into a meeting with her. She would walk out practically with the sale and I was just like, wow, this woman is she was into this. She's still she's still brilliant. She's still around talking in terms of like she's not she's absolutely brilliant. She's self aware of the fact that when she's just having normal conversation that she does come off as being brass. She's and because of that when she meets new people, especially in the business world that she's going to work with on a regular basis. She lets people know like I'm not i That's not how I mean to come across and I'm actively working on trying to get better Read it. Okay, perfect. So her and I never had a problem, even when I was, you know, really young in my career, because she had told me, and I was like, all right. But other people were like, I'm not working with her. She's She's, she's mean. And I'm like, not really not mean, she's just blunt. And I realized that I might, my dad used to always say, You're horrible at politics, you're horrible at getting long at work, you're a bull in a china shop, you know, you got to get better at it. And I'm like, I don't know how. I'm just me. Because I've always just been one of those people, like, you know, I'm the person that, you know, if you're standing in a group of people, and somebody's got their fly down, I'm gonna look and go, Zip up your fly, and everybody else is like Google, like, you just embarrassed him? Well, wouldn't it be more embarrassing for him to stand with his fly open than just tell them really quick, hey, Zip up your fly. But there are people who will stand in that circle and never say it. I'm just the person who's like, I'll say what needs to be said, regardless of whether it needs to be said, like, that's just always been my personality. And so anyways, when you were speaking, you know, that was one thing that came to mind is that you can, you can have a variety of different personalities. But if you are aware of it, and you address it, and you, so you being intimidating, you know, you became aware of it, you addressed it, and you figure it out how to. And that's, I think the that's, that's the only thing that matters is that and then there are other people who were like, Well, okay, I'm aware of it, but they never actively try to make a change for it. And that's where the problem lies. Like, this woman knew it, actively tried to figure out well, how do I how do I don't know exactly what I'm doing? She's just, you know, she was just blonde. And that's where people shine? Is that when they're willing to accept that? Yes. And it has nothing to do with whether or not she really, let's say that she really wasn't an asshole. It has nothing to do whether or not she really is or isn't it has to do with the world? And how they perceive if she is because her manager may have may have thought, oh, no, she's not brass at all. She's the greatest person in the world. She's selling everything. And yes, she was. It's it only comes down to how everybody else in the world perceives the situation, which is why you said feedback is subjective. And that's also why it comes down to do you have a good management team? If you have a manager who perceives everybody as being just amazing and great, your manager who's like, yeah, just thumbs up, keep doing what you're doing? Well, that's not that's not gonna help you either. Because now you've gotten the perception that you're doing absolutely everything great. And then if somebody else comes to you and says, Yeah, you really need to stop doing this. You're gonna go, Yeah, but my manager told me that I'm doing everything awesome. So just simply saying, Hey, you're doing everything great is not doing you any favors. And there are managers out there that do that, too. But that also comes down to conflict, right? How do I give feedback, especially if that feedback is negative? And I think that's one of the one of the probably biggest conversations that's happening within organizations right now is conflict management and how to provide that feedback. Especially if it's negative.
Sara Hanaway 38:37
Yeah, and for me, I think words have power. Absolutely. And, and I'm not always good at it. And so I try not to say negative feedback. I try to say constructive feedback, or when I'm talking to my team or others, I'm like, What are opportunities for you? And one of the things that I tried really hard and, and this was more towards the end of my career, because I'm very driven. I can be forceful. People would describe me as tough but fair. I tone police myself, because I can hear my own tone, though. I get a little worried about that. Because sometimes my tone isn't that bad. But it's, that'll get me down a rabbit hole. So
Leighann Lovely 39:23
my tone to my husband yells at me all the time. He's like, why are you preaching at me? And I'm like, am I and then I'll go all right. Yeah. Sorry.
Sara Hanaway 39:33
Yeah. So when I wanted to set up is an environment where people felt safe making mistakes. I mean, think about it as a human being. We don't like making mistakes. We don't like walking into our boss's office saying I screwed up. screw ups happen. That's how we learn. That's how we grow. I mean, my accident taught me that yes, it was an accident, but I mean, talk about luck. lots of mistakes happening along the way as you learn my limits, like what I can and cannot do. And so I wanted my team. So I started asking a question which made them feel very uncomfortable, which was how did you fail? And so I'd ask it, the way our reviews happen was every quarter. So how did you fail this quarter? And they're like, You really want me to tell you that? I'm like, it's not going in your permanent record. And yes, I want you and all of a sudden, our it ended up not being every quarter, it ended up being they were comfortable saying, here's where I screwed up. Here's where I need help. Here's what I learned. And then we didn't repeat, though those types of and they started to self learn, which also helped then make the conversations constructive. I'm a huge fan of crucial conversations. So you start with the heart, and you start with mutual purpose. So if you're not going in with the understanding that you're doing this to help the other person grow, then you don't have mutual understanding. If you're going in with I need them to do this in order to produce results for the company. That's not mutual purpose. mutual purpose is we want to create an environment where people feel engaged, productive, and balanced. Right. Okay, yes, you still need to produce results. But so that is difficult to do. And I've also worked with people who are like, you only put all the negative in all the constructive? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we accentuate their strengths. And then we tell them the things they need to work on. And 98% of the time, the things they need to work on, are their strengths, it's when they're not operating in their strengths, right?
Leighann Lovely 41:44
Well, and you said something that companies is if companies are reaching out to you, or reaching out to, you know, a training, I would hope that they have the right goal in mind. Because if, if they're reaching out to you just for Well, let's, you know, have them have the employees go through this program, and if they're only for the company, and not for the employees, then there's a there's a disconnect, and they're never going to have a long term workforce, they're going to continue to have turnover. First of all, you know, and and the other thing is, is that any company who does not understand that healthy, happy employees produce higher quality, more results, is not going to survive in today's world, there is just not there has been a massive, massive shift. And this shift was happening, it's just been, you know, as everybody knows, the shift now just got compressed into a shorter period of time, because of what happened with the pandemic. And now with mental health being talked about, and people talking about the fact that they're struggling, and so many people, we all now have a new relationship with alcohol. And so more people, you You laugh, but it's not with a pandemic. I mean, it's, it's so many people started drinking more than they used to started, you know. So there's a lot more out there, people out there going, Yeah, I need help. Like, I need to have a full life wellness, and that needs to, to, you know, start with my family and go in and go beyond that into my work. And I need to have full life wellness, and I can't be unhappy at home. And then I go to this volatile environment, I need to have an employer who actually cares about my my well being, and not working me to the point where I'm so exhausted that I'm becoming unhealthy. And it's interesting because I had spoken to, you know, spoke with somebody else and actually multiple people you speak to, you know, chiropractor, chiropractors or wellness coaches, wellness, you know, wellness facilities, people who are just on the outside of doctors, right? That work on preventative medicine, all of them, all of them say the same thing. That if you are sitting in a fight situation, especially if you're you know, at work, you're constantly stressed out, you're you are never allowing your body to heal. And you will only continue to go down because it's all connected to your nervous system. And I'm not a doctor, so I could be saying this wrong. But you know, my chiropractor says the same thing. I've spoken with somebody else who, you know, was an engineer, and it's all the same thing. If you're constantly in the fight mode, which is where you would be if you're, if you're going to a job you hate every single day, and you're miserable and you come home and you're miserable. Your body is that's where it's sitting, it's sitting in that fight survival mode, which means that you're never actually going to bed and fully healing, which means you're waking up exhausted, which means that you're going to work exhausted, which means you're not producing fully, which means it's just a negative cycle. So for an employer to not understand that healthy, happy environment, healthy, happy employees produce better quality, better results, is just it's I wouldn't understand why a company wouldn't invest in the proper things for their employees. If you would have asked me 10 years ago, I would have gone well, aren't they doing everything? Again? I mean, it's not like they're responsible for making sure that they're happy at work. Maybe
Sara Hanaway 45:58
Yeah, but so I think a lot of companies say, so I heard this, at both of the big companies, I worked at Hurley MBRP people our competitive advantage, but even why I worked there, I'm like, if people are your competitive advantage, then you need to invest in them. Right. And the first thing to go when you have budget cuts are things you know, or you have to apply to the stakeholders. And, you know, I worked for companies that were on the stock market. And even though they say the stakeholders, we're not making decisions that way. We're making decisions that way. I mean, I run my own business, now I'm making business decisions based on, you know, some things that I'm like, Oh, I kind of get it now, why you might have made that decision. But it's the first thing that gets cut is the people stuff, or the other thing that happens, which just happened on the talk with the team with the merger, is because you're so busy producing, you feel guilty, taking that two hours out of a team meeting, to do something else. But you know, it produces results, you know, your team feels better. But you have to get through that. And another team I talked to was my former team at Hurley that I was practicing with, they knew right when I started my company, they got to me the first group that I came to present to, so they were full on board. But the thing that they wanted help with is they're a team that constantly has a standard process, but changes get thrown at them. And that's not going to change while they're trying to fix it up the food chain, those changes are going to happen. And she wanted her team to be able to how can they react to that better, because it's gonna keep happening. And I want my team to feel good. I want my team to know it's okay. When that happens. Shut your computer down, go for a walk. I don't care what you need to do. And then come back to it. So I think we're slowly getting there where where people are realizing well being, I think I think the pandemic helped with that where we all had this moment. I forget the name now. brain, brain fog is coming into my head, but the the produce produce produce mentality, the syndrome that we have that we all have, you have to unlearn that. So to the story you were talking about, you're you're miserable at work, you keep going. That's a little what happened to me in 2020 when the pandemic hit is I loved the people I worked with. I was great at my marketing job. I enjoyed doing that. I enjoyed the challenge. But every day I went to work. I was like, what, what's going on? And my therapist said the best thing and she was like, I was like, I want to quit just like you can't quit today. I was like, but I want to quit and she's like, You can't quit today, sir, you have to do the work. And the thing that I see, and I get a lot when I when I talk about a course or a program, if you work with me one on one, I'm like, Well, this is going to take six weeks or this is going to take eight weeks and I had a woman go eight weeks. And I'm like, you have to unlearn a lot in order for the change to take. So what therapist was working with me is I was one of those people who believed that my success came from my achievements. And I had to unlearn all that. I don't believe that anymore. And I was slowly unlearning that already at that point. But I was still at this. If I'm not in a big fortune 500 company, I'm not performing all of this kind of stuff. And we had to undo all of that. And she's like, that's why you can't quit. Because if we don't solve that problem first with my therapist, and this was therapy work versus a coach work, right, completely different. And we worked on it for nine months. And then I came to her with my plan and she's like you can quit now. And the reason I shared that is it takes work correct. So even having me in for a talk is not going to solve it right takes work, right.
Leighann Lovely 50:09
And we get so set in what our own brain believes to be true. Because of years and years and years and years of, of habit, and the idea that you can only be happy if you are this prestigious person working at a prestigious company doing this prestigious job. That is, that is the mind set of many people. But happiness, I've come to realize is doing the thing that I want to do, and being healthy and happy with my family. And that is for me to the thing that I want to do is for me to design. Yep, that looks different to absolutely everybody, if I want to go work at a fortune 500 company, and that's my passion. Great. But if my passion is working at Kwik Trip, great, I'll go work at Kwik Trip, my passion is owning my own business, and all the stress that goes with it. Great for whoever. But it all starts with being healthy in in the head first. And body, which and I think so many people get lost in the idea that there's this cookie cutter, perfect person or perfect, like design of what success is. Like there is there isn't success is different for absolutely everybody. And you will hear and talk to people who have millions and millions of dollars who have gotten to the top tippy, tippy top of owning, you know, billion dollar companies. And they'll go I thought once I had gotten here, I would understand what true success is. And it was just emptiness. And it's like, yeah, because true success has nothing to do with the letters you climb. And so many people are now realizing that because it doesn't, it's all it's it's all about your happiness and not accomplishments. And we're coming to time, I wish that we could continue to talk about this. But we we are absolutely coming to time. So I'm going to ask you the question of the season. Do you have any final thoughts on that, though, before I cut you off?
Sara Hanaway 52:30
Yeah. So I would just say to that, that's what I do. When I the chunk of working individual coaching with people is helping him change the stories that they have in their head, figuring out what is actual fact. And what are just stories that you've learned or done, and then rewriting that story of what you want to define. And then giving them the skills when everybody else in the stories they hear is the exact opposite. And you said it brilliantly. What might work for you, Leanne isn't going to work for me, because when I left BRP, one of the things I said as I said, I don't know if I want this pace anymore. And the president of the company is like I love this pace. I said that's great. And that's great for you just might not be great for me anymore. And there's nothing wrong with that. And Keven agreed, he's like, I concur. There's nothing wrong with that. So you have to figure out for you, right? What's you? And that's what I help people do.
Leighann Lovely 53:29
And that's absolutely awesome. Because it is truly the lies that we tell herself, that we need to learn how to stop telling in order to find success and having somebody help us do that. It's so much less lonely. Yes. So the question of the season, what do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three plus years?
Sara Hanaway 53:56
I'm going to answer this in what I hope will happen. I'm a grounded optimist, which just means that through my life experience, I know we can get through a lot. And we'll come around the other side. What I'm seeing right now is the pendulum swinging all the way the other way. And what I mean by that is when change is about to happen transfer more transformational change, which is what happened when we went through the pandemic, when we all learned we could work from home. We could process some people prospered and some didn't. Some people are still better in the office, some work, all of that. But when you go through transformational change, you get forces that hit each other. And that's what we're seeing now. We're seeing, we're seeing the little bit of a generational shift, but we're also seeing people who've always done work the way they've always done work being questioned and not understanding why everybody else It doesn't work that way, even though we just did it for two and a half plus years. And it's because that is a transformational change in their mind. So I think we are on the cusp of another transformational change, I think what will happen in the history books, my hope is a couple of things. One, we all learn to slow down. And that we will continue to focus on that slow down and continue to see what works for ourselves, and our well being, too. I think mental health is going to take an uptick and be more prominent. I'm very proud of you for sharing your story. I used to not talk about my accident. And I do now because I think and I used to not tell people I'm in therapy, I tell everyone on therapy, because I think mental health is important, I hope and pray that our insurances get better. So more people, I have two friends who can't get into a counselor right now, because there's we're at a loss for them, right. So I think that'll go on up tip, I think we'll see more and more people talking about mental health, and balancing this need to produce and well being. And I think that we're going to continue to see quiet coding, until people really put the walk with the talk, which is if you really believe people are your asset, then you need to invest in people, you have to invest in people as much as you invest in your product. So that's my hope, for that we'll start seeing will continue to see this shift that it will continue. And the pendulum will slowly come back and we'll find some sort of balance. I think it'll swing the other way. And then, and we'll find balance. But that's my hope over the next three years is that's what we learned. We learned that there are multiple ways that people can work. And there's multiple ways that we can produce in society, and that we all need to be healthy and well, in order to be active participants in this world we live in.
Leighann Lovely 57:10
That was amazing. Extremely, I got goosebumps, because I 100%. Agree. Very well said, if somebody wanted to, excuse me, if somebody wanted to reach out to Sarah, how would they go about doing that to learn more about, you know, how to engage you for your services, and that kind of stuff.
Sara Hanaway 57:31
You can reach out to me at Sarah hanaway.com That's my website and there's contact information. There's also all my social media handles. Most of them are like Sarah hanaway official. So you can find me on the social media as well, but my website is the best place.
Leighann Lovely 57:48
Excellent. Sarah, this has been such an awesome conversation. I appreciate it so much.
Sara Hanaway 57:53
I loved every minute of it. You made it so easy and fun. It was just it was great.
Leighann Lovely 57:58
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPY
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, work, managers, learn, team, change, talk, actionable feedback, years, happen, day, business, produce, company, triumph, pandemic, realize, sarah, end result, feedback
Wednesday Sep 06, 2023
Wednesday Sep 06, 2023
Lisa Carlin is a Strategic Execution Specialists whom works within organizations to help mentor her clients through transformational change. She has a 96% success rate with the clients that she works with. She has a global reach with the clients that she works with and has a true desire and passion to help those that she works with. Lisa has an amazing background and understanding for people, this is a great addition to Let’s Talk HR.
Contact Lisa –
LinkedIN - linkedin.com/in/lisacarlin
Website – futurebuildersgroup.com
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started. Lisa Carlin is a strategic execution specialists and co founder of future builders group, a network of organizational development specialists. Lisa started her career with McKinsey and a center since 1999. She has worked directly with prestigious global clients to Australian corporations, global and high tech ventures. She works with leaders to turbocharge their transformation, projects and change. Lisa has an impressive track record, having successfully delivered and mentored clients through over 50 transformation programs. With an outstanding 96% success rate, far surpassing the average success rate reported in research, her passion now lies in scaling up implementation success, which led her to establish a membership Academy for professionals to implement business culture and digital transformation. Lisa also volunteers as the chair of an education not for profit organization. Lisa, thank you so much for joining me today. This is such a treat.
Lisa Carlin 02:25
Thank you, Leighann, for having me here. I'm really excited to chat to you today.
Leighann Lovely 02:29
So you are coming to me from a 15 hour difference in in time because you are halfway around the world writes, why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself where you're from and what you do.
Lisa Carlin 02:45
Sure Leighann Aussies, like to like to joke with the with the eanx that were in the future, we're ahead. Because it's, it's Thursday morning here when it's a Wednesday afternoon for you. And so. So, there you go. So I actually started out in Cape Town, South Africa. So at the bottom of southernmost tip of Africa, that's where I grew up. And I grew up in the apartheid era. And that has actually sort of framed that guilt that's associated with being a white, South African and apartheid age, has actually framed who I am, and and what I do. So because I was part of a in my teenage years, and then through to university, part of a multicultural organization. And we used to, you know, for me, it's all about the respect of people. And that's what we didn't have in society in respect of different people. And then that organization was banned by their Patek government when they declared a state of emergency on anything that they're considered disruptive to the regime. And so that whole experience of, you know, I remember going to university and, and opening up the newsletter. And one of my colleagues, Paul, who was one of our friends in the in the group was arrested. And at the time you were arrested without a trial. And without any, you could be detained indefinitely. And we never found out what happened to him. And to this day, I don't know what happened to him. And, you know, it was just like, all of a sudden, these people who were there were just gone. And so, and Paul was a person of color, which made it even worse, you know? So, so for me, I have a very strong value about respectful people and giving people a voice. And that's what it's all about what I do. So I moved. I worked for Accenture for a while I then worked, went to the US and worked for McKinsey. I came to Australia, I'm gonna cut a very long story short, and I do love it here, and the lifestyle in Sydney, and the weather. And, and I studied here again and then I, I, in 1989 started my own business. And I've, I've put all the learnings I've had together into implementing change and executing strategies in organizations through like large scale programs of improving sales, improving customer service, improving, you know, performance in business, all of those sorts of things. And in the last few years, I've started doing more mentoring more and more over the years doing more and more mentoring of the executives and the leaders and the teams rather than doing the work on the ground myself. And because what I'm trying to do is, is create a massive improvement in the success rates of transformation. And, and I believe it can be done in this Win Win kind of way. So the problem is that, you know, you look at McKinsey's research, and they say 70% of, of transformations fail, and when I use the word transformation very loosely, so it could be any kind of change in organizations, and, and Harvard Business Review last year cited that 78% of these organizational initiatives fail. And so I know, it's crazy.
Leighann Lovely 06:38
Why. So why do you think that is?
Lisa Carlin 06:44
So I've looked at the reasons and they give lots, you know, the different studies will show lots of reasons, and they'll show reasons, like, you know, disagreement, you know, at the executive level around what should be done, they'll, they'll show reasons, like I said, boils down to people, they'll show reasons, like, ran over budget, hugely under done in the timeframe. But when you boil a lot of those reasons down, they're all to people, right? Because they're all because of people because if you don't implement something within budget, it's because it's because of people, if you don't implement something within time, it's because people aren't reaching agreements on things. And that's what I found to be the biggest issue. So I read the research, and I've experienced it on the ground. And I can see that it's because people are not on the same page about things. And so, so this is where my passion is, is around. And I've done over 50 transformations, I've got to clear failures. And so that's 96% in the success rate, so I feel very proud of that. And I want to spread this, and that's what my mission is now because it's a win win win, right? It's a win for the organization in terms of my approach, it's because they're getting the performance lift from these initiatives. It's a win for the people who are delivering the change, because their careers just, you know, multiply out amazingly after this and flourish. And it's a win for the rest of the people in the organization because it gives them a voice. And because that is the way that i i Is that is my approach is just is around that is around giving people in the organization, a voice which creates that momentum for these initiatives, and then you don't land up with being stuck. Right.
Leighann Lovely 08:37
That's amazing. And so, let me there's a lot for me to touch on here. So let me start with one. Where were you started? Where you grew up? That Wow. I mean, there's there's so much that I could so many questions that I could ask about that. How long were you? How long were you there? And when did you move? Your next move was to the US or? Yes, yes. Okay. And at what age did you move to the US?
Lisa Carlin 09:14
So I moved to the US in my 20s 1994 which was an interesting year because that was the year Mandela came to power.
Leighann Lovely 09:24
So wow, so you had your entire childhood growing up in an environment that was very almost unknown difficult and, and lost friends to unknown places. While we I mean, being arrested for and just scooped up and never to be seen again? Because it might in my right.
Lisa Carlin 09:56
Yeah, like I I remember clearly where I was. I was and I was sitting in the university cafeteria. And I opened the newsletter. And then Paul's face was, and yeah, and I never saw him again. So, and then I had this pressure from my family to not be involved in any, anything that could be considered anti apartheid because feminists, you know, you've got blacklisted and they will, you know, right, people were arrested. So they I remember, my mother was so concerned at one stage, she went to go talk to my school principal, to try and unravel me from and I wasn't doing anything violent, or all we were doing, it was a multicultural, it was a cultural focus,
Leighann Lovely 10:47
right? Yeah. So that obviously has, like you said, shaped your beliefs and the desire to help and change the way that people view and see. Society, I mean, the making things more inclusive and accepting, and I'm not trying to talk for you. But I can only imagine what it would be. I don't want to say what it would be like, because I can't imagine what it would be like, but I can only imagine the influence in which that would have on not only a young person, but also somebody who is now you know, in, in university growing up and trying to make their way and trying to understand what is transpiring that has now shaped, you know, as you're in your 20s, now, shaping your view of the world and now entering into the US going into a completely different culture. And trying to make your way through through that, right. I mean, in the US has a completely different world, we're chaotic in a completely different way. I mean, I guess you could say, right, it's,
Lisa Carlin 12:09
Yeah, and I had an amazing experience there. And working for McKinsey was just, you know, just an amazing experience. And just such a huge, a huge culture shock, you know, right and going from, you know, yeah, just, you know, some days you'd see there would be a riot or one of those armored vehicles would be enter the, you know, the white suburbs, because we grew up in different, you know, I couldn't even the friends that I met, at one stage, I was doing Junior Achievement, which is American Junior program, entrepreneurial program for high school students, and, again, multiracial. So very few things growing up that you could do that were multiracial, and I love diversity of people, I find that fascinating. And so I guess, to go for anything, where we, you know, I could just learn and meet different people. And we couldn't go to restaurants and to movies or the beach or anything like that together, because they will segregated. And so they had kind of fought through, well, let's keep all these people of different colors separately. And it was really hard, and even visiting each other's houses were difficult, because we all lived in different areas very far from each other. So it made it all quite different. And then going from that, to the US where everything is just, yeah, just just interesting. It's just, it's so different. It's so different. And yeah, and you know, the whole consulting lifestyle is so different, you know, you get on a corporate plane and you go out or even, you know, regular plane and you go off for the day to do your work somewhere and then fly and fly it. No, it's a very, it's quite a it's an exciting life, but in a different way.
Leighann Lovely 13:56
Correct? Yeah. And again, you can say chaos in a different way. You go from one place where it's completely segregated, struggling to navigate how to I mean, you can't you can't show any political affiliation. You can't, or you know, God forbid, talk about that in public. And then you come to the US where you have people and this is in what year
Lisa Carlin 14:23
in the 90s
Leighann Lovely 14:24
in the 90s. Okay, so it's not as crazy, you know, not as crazy then. Well, you probably equally deemed as crazy then as it is now, because every year I suppose we say that, Oh, this is the craziest year, you know, but it really wasn't quite as crazy then as it is now, probably just in a different way. But yeah, absolute culture shock. Now you have, I mean, we are still some cities are extremely segregated. Others are not at all what city did you did you move to again?
Lisa Carlin 14:56
Well, here's the thing. It was Atlanta. So that's a whole interesting story in it. So, okay, yeah, yeah. So it was still then fairly conservative. And so yeah, yeah. And in fact, more conservative than the environment that I grew up in, funnily enough, because I grew up in a very liberal family and a very liberal community. Right. So that was again, a shock
Leighann Lovely 15:20
Very interesting. Very interesting. Okay. So now, all right, so I've focused on that now you have now lived in the US, you've had some great experiences at some amazing companies, and then you make your way to Australia. When did you do that? And why and you talk about the weather. I wish that I knew what the weather there felt like I've never been, but when did you make that move? And, you know, you opened your business, you said the year 1999? Yes. Okay. So you are now the co founder and director of future builders group, where you facilitate workshop, mentor CEOs, and much more, you opened that business in 1999. And did you open it after you had arrived to Australia,
Lisa Carlin 16:15
I did my MBA, I worked for a year and a half for a culture change organization. And then I started working on my own. So it was all very, it was quick two years in the US to two years MBA full time that, so, so what, and then I worked on my own. And then 10 years ago, we found that the future builders brand as a whole, there's so many as you nollie, and so many independent consultants out there, and it gets kind of lonely sometimes, especially when you've been in a big consultancy, and you know, what the resources are like, and that, you know, and the learning that you can have from other people. So we created the future builders brand, which is an umbrella for a group of independent law parties. It's a boutique organization for independent organizational development specialists, basically. So and that's been lovely, and I've got amazing colleagues. So the whole idea is that we can do work that we enjoy doing, and not worry about having to get people utilized on to jobs, because, you know, there's no permanent employees. So the objectives are more aligned with the clients, you know, you're there to do the client work, right. So that's, that's what we did. And then I've been working at this. And now I just feel like, I want to make more of an impact. It's not enough just to do one or two or three or four jobs a year with clients or mentor, you know, small handful. I want to make more of an impact. And that's why I founded turbocharge your transformation, membership.
Leighann Lovely 17:51
So tell me in something you said, entrepreneurship is the loneliest place in the world. By by all means, you didn't say that. But you had made a comment about entrepreneurship can be can be lonely. And I just want to say that for my audience. entrepreneurship can be the loneliest place in the world, because you are or you're on your own. So having a group something like you would just kind of said, it's okay to be an independent, but find your people work with your people. And I love I love that I you know, it's a group of you said independence that we're in now, tell me about this most recent turbo charge, say that again, turbocharge your transformation, turbocharged transformation, I want to say so sorry, go ahead. I said, I want to hear about this.
Lisa Carlin 18:41
So I was actually quite excited. Because last week, when I typed in turbocharger transformation, we came up top in the Google search. That's how that happened. So it's an online academy. And there's, you know, since COVID, that's probably been the biggest change in terms of people just moving to do things digitally, that they didn't do before. So things like shopping and hybrid work and online learning. And so And the amazing thing is that the world has become a smaller place. So the entrepreneurs listening to this, you know, you can have, you know, build relationships with people across the ocean, like Leanne and I are talking today. It's so it's so easy. And it's so interesting, because you learn, it just gives you different ideas and perspective on things. And, you know, we now have a worldwide marketplace where things were many things. So that global, you know, global cohorts become more important. So what this Learning Academy is, is it's for professionals who are delivering projects, and any kind of change. And so, you know, small businesses will be doing that because they focused on growth, so they need to change so The terminology is a bit different, because entrepreneurs will think about, you know, how am I going to get growth in this business? How am I going to get my startup established? How am I going to, you know, build my audience and my my customers and get product market fit. And then and then go from there. larger organizations who've got that fit, who are more much more mature at different stages. And I've got a model that sort of looks at the pathway for for success for transformation success. And the top of the five at the top of the triangle is this unicorn middle piece, which is, you know, the Nirvana where we all want to get to where everything's in perfect fit, right. And so and so people will be at different stages there. But they're all having to implement projects to deliver this growth. And that's what the turbocharger transformation is about, is about how do you turbocharged those projects, those initiatives to be able to implement things faster? And more successfully? And it's all yeah, sorry, go? Have you seen that I'm gonna keep talking over and not even give you a chance to write the word and because I'm so excited,
Leighann Lovely 21:07
And this is what we You had mentioned before, when I when I asked you why, why do other programs, programs not succeed, and you said people, and the people are the ones who are getting away of the amount of time it takes, possibly the amount of money that it takes. So you've implemented a program that will allow it to work faster, more efficiently, so that we're not wasting time on decision making on? And that's what it sounds like, am I correct?
Lisa Carlin 21:41
Exactly. So it's all through a cultural behavioral lens. So it's, it's like a mixture between a project management program and a change management program and a behavioral program? Because
Leighann Lovely 21:57
So do you do some type of like assessments upfront to look at the behavioral piece first to understand or is that something that's built in?
Lisa Carlin 22:08
So I have an assessment called the transformation success score. And that's actually free. And it's on my website, in fact, right at the bottom of our homepage, so WWW dot future builders group.com. And the transformation success score measures the confidence measures your confidence against a number of different dimensions of execution. Right? So how do you do the design of what you what you know, of what you plan in, which is basically a strategic lens? How do you plan out things? You know, how do you influence people, you know, like leaders, or if you're in a large businesses will be how do you influence your leaders, in a in a, if you're in a smaller business, you might have a board of directors that you've got to influence whoever you know, influence your people. So it's all of those sorts of insights measures that, and then you get a percentage score. And then you can do it along the along the way on the program. So you know, after sort of a few months, or six months, and it's all about confidence, it's self assessment, and it measures your confidence, because that is that most, that is the biggest factor that is going to determine people's effectiveness, everything else, you know, you can learn all of these things. And that's what this program teaches. And then it's how confident are you to, to do these things. And I believe measurement is so important, because then it just gives you absolute clarity. So at the beginning, and then along the way, and it's a membership. So it's not one of these one hit wonders, where you go off and do a learning program, and then you forget everything afterwards. It's a membership. So you come in. So every month is a different topic. Our topic this month is turbocharged with AI. And last month, that was culture friendly implementation. So every month is different. And then we have a masterclass
Leighann Lovely 23:58
and up, do people get to write, I'm gonna start, I'm gonna start putting my finger up. So do people get to, like, choose like, yes, I want to participate in this one? Or is it just here are the topics that we're going to cover throughout, you know, the next 12 months or you know, are there different? And again, every single one that you listed there is is wildly one interesting and important. Ai right now is on everybody's mind. Anywhere everywhere you go, it doesn't matter. You walk into a room and you hear somebody talking about oh, AI GP chat or whatever it might be, you know, AI, you know, I have an AI tool that I use in my business. So that's wildly important. So how do you guess how do you get are these live trainings are these how do they go through the program?
Lisa Carlin 25:00
Great questions. So every month is a different topic. And you can attend live zoom sessions, and they timed for the US audience as well as Australia. So it's, so if you're in Europe zone, it people would then they would participate asynchronously. Right? Okay. Because if all the sessions are recorded, so you have a one hour masterclass? Well, first you get your playbook. So every hour every month is a playbook. And it's an editable PowerPoint. So I give out my IP for people to use, they, they'll always templates in there that they can use straight away for planning their projects for, you know, checklists for things awkward, like easy to use one pages, it's all in PowerPoint, one page templates. And then, and then, so they get that two weeks before the master class, they do the master class, then they've got two weeks to try out the templates and have a think, right, and they can watch the recording again, if they want, and they can send me their questions. Or they can then come to a group coaching session that I have on zoom the fortnight later and ask their questions, and I just do it in a group setting.
Leighann Lovely 26:09
That's awesome. And I'm thinking, you know, the difference, you know, in time, so you're out? Yeah, I was gonna make a bad joke. So are you up at two o'clock in the morning with the US people? No, I'm bad. I'm sorry. I just I love I love this, this whole time difference thing, it's insane that you are literally in the future. Okay, bad joke. So, so each so one month that everybody has one month to digest all of this information, and then move on to the next topic. And then they have a month to go through and digest the next information. And they're able to, I'm assuming that you get emailed in, you know, email questions you get, you know, from other time zones, and, and that type of thing.
Lisa Carlin 26:58
Exactly. So that the reason why I ask people to email me questions, if they want to, is because they may not be able to make the session, right? Or, because some of these things are quite sensitive that people are doing and they don't want people to know other people to know that they're, you know, outsiders to know their strategies, or the fact that they're having a problem influencing their boss to go forward on a particular project. And they want to know, techniques, you know, practicals are very practical. So they give me the question. So one girl, one woman's gave me a question about because I've got a free newsletter as well. It's also called turbocharge your transformation, and it's on LinkedIn. And I get people to do the same, I get them send me questions, because and then in the newsletter, there was the Scott woman, and I called her Lucy, but it wasn't Lucy. And Lucy was having trouble with, you know, all the stakeholders in a very siloed culture. And so I could give the advice, I gave her advice to her in the newsletter. And I can do that I do that with the with the group coaching sessions. And nobody knows who's asked the question, right. And so when I change the name of the person, or you know, I just don't give that too much. People don't know who's and that the amazing thing is you look at it that Leone listen, and it could be you,
Leighann Lovely 28:14
right? What, if one person is asking a question, it is likely that somebody else in the world has that same question or is experiencing the same thing, because it's typically something that is happening at somebody else's organization is happening somewhere else, or has happened, or is going to happen? At another organization. That's the whole concept of learning together, trans transforming together, or, you know, shifting our, our cultural beliefs, and, you know, kind of trying to learn how to do best practices together. And then then providing feedback to the people who are training. Those of us who need to shift our thinking, right, the only way that the only way that anything changes is for people to want to admit that they're wrong, or to admit that they need help. And then be willing to listen and hear the advice of other people. You know, I can go and you hear this all the time, I could go to a conference, I can go to a summit I can go to every single day of my life, but if I'm not willing to hear what is being said, it will do me absolutely no good. And unfortunately, there are so many people who go there that will walk in that door and gain absolutely nothing or gain it for a day. And forget it after that and never look back at notes. Never reference it back. and never try to grow beyond that for a day. And I think that we're finally meeting people like you and coaches out there. And that are making an attempt to get the masses to realize that the only way we grow is through active listening and, and intentional action and change.
Lisa Carlin 30:30
Absolutely. And then try and trying it out. And that's what they do they try it out, they actually, yeah, they do that they make that change and try these things. Right. And that's the magic of it. Because imagine if you've got to the one of the sessions is a session on planning. But for people who've done project management training, it's still from a very different approach, because this is methodology agnostic. So it's like, you know, it's, it's, it's the psychology of how you go about planning and what you do with your plan. And it's a one page template. So yeah, it's, you know, it's so exciting, because people can try it out straight away. And you asked a really, do you want to ask another question before? You ask, you asked me a really interesting question about what happens, which I didn't answer fully, which is what happens, you know, if they if they're not as interested in that month's topic, or what happens with the month before? So you're a fractional sales leader? And that's what you know, I know you do so. So you probably, you'd look at me, what might my I love mentors, I believe everyone should have a mentor in what they do. I mean, all the Olympic athletes do people need mentors and what they're doing, I was like, you say, entrepreneurship is lonely, and, and business is lonely, and being in a big corporate is even lonelier. So my I have a sales mentor. And my sales mentor said to me, Lisa, when somebody joins, so if they join in, in in August, they should only get the August session, and then they get the sessions after that you don't want to give away all your IP, of all the things that came before because it's only 99 US dollars a month this membership, right? So for $99, you're getting all of the sessions before. And I thought about it, and I thought, Well, my purpose is not with this is not money. First, my purpose with this is to make a difference in the world to the implementation success rates. I mean, they are, you know, 70 plus percent failure is unacceptable. Yeah. And with startups and smaller business, it's like 90% Plus, so it's unacceptable. And that is my mission. So I have decided against all advice to keep the rest of the IP on the site and available. So if you come in on one month, we were doing AI and for some reason you are really, really don't want to do AI. And this is, you know, it's easy for the most non techie people. But anyway, then you can and your score in planning is really low, you can then go to the planning session, and start there, there's no order each set, each topic is independent of the others.
Leighann Lovely 33:14
And as a sales professional, you are giving away the house by doing this, and I'm sure that your sales coaches told you that, that you know, when they enter in you, you charge them for going forward, not for everything they missed. But again, it's your what I will say to every person I have ever worked with, ultimately, it's your baby, it's your business, you have to do at the end of the day, what you need to do to sleep at nights. But if I put my coaching hat on, I can only help you be as successful as you will allow me to help you be if that makes sense. Absolutely. So, you know, if if somebody comes and says I want to make a million dollars, well, okay, then I'm going to be a hard line. This is how you're going to do it. You can't give, give away your products. I would say absolutely don't do that. They're going to have to stay until that product comes up through the, you know, to the next session. But it's your baby. It's your passion. It's your product, and what whatever goals you have are 100% yours and yours alone. And that's that's the difference between being an employee and being an entrepreneur, you get to call the shots. And the reason that most entrepreneurs start their business is not because they're like I want to Be A Millionaire. There are plenty of them out there that want that started because they want to be a millionaire. But most of them have a passion and have a desire to not work for somebody else, so that they have the ability to call their shots and make decisions that somebody else keeps shoving down their throat. There's, there's my
Lisa Carlin 35:25
and that's why I, you know, the clients that I mentor, I, I sometimes run sessions for them and their team, instead of a mentoring session, I'll say, come bring your team in. And we'll do purpose, right, we'll cover we'll have an hour and a half. And we'll develop a purpose statement because some of them don't have it really clear. And I think that should guide you know, whether you're a, you know, a 20 person business or a 10 person business, or 1000 person business or 120,000 person business, and I've worked for all you know, that range. If you've got a purpose statement that can guide, what you're doing, then it's authentic, because yeah, and that's why businesses have some businesses like Canva that are so mission based, it's amazing. Space, right. That's why Yeah.
Leighann Lovely 36:16
And I would say that the majority of businesses that started with a, a true purpose and passion are the businesses that have grown and thrived. The ones that started with here, I have this product that I'm not passionate about it, but I just want to go in and sell it are the ones that really struggled because they don't, they don't understand how to explain the ROI to the people, when you have a passion, a purpose, it's so much easier to be authentic. And explain here is how this is going to help you. This is why it's going to be able to make an impact on you, your business, your life. And you clearly you clearly have you have that, which means that when you talk about it, I can see you light up, I can see the smile. And that in itself is huge. Because people people know authenticity from a mile away.
Lisa Carlin 37:30
It's amazing how much energy is going Emilian like I feel, you know, more energized, and I work longer hours at the moment than I have in my entire life. And I'm loving it.
Leighann Lovely 37:44
And and if you do what you love, you'll never work a day in your life.
Lisa Carlin 37:49
Because I don't feel like I'm working Correct. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely 37:54
Right. Yeah. Right. And, and that's, that is why that is why people like you and me do what we do and hundreds of 1000s of other people out there, because are you really working? Or are you just, you know, fulfilling, fulfilling your bucket, you know, filling up your cup. And, you know, I talked about a previous guest of mine talked about, you know, filling up that cup, if you're doing something every day that you have to constantly be battling to keep that cup full, you're probably not doing something that you should be doing. You have to, and if what you're doing is already fulfilling that and you're finding balance and you're finding that fulfillment in it, then you're in the right place. And you You mean you do you have a an amazing, it sounds like an amazing business product, people around, you know, you're the co founder. So you you have you know, a partner that I'm assuming is just as passionate.
Lisa Carlin 39:07
So I'm the co founder of future builders, which is our community, right? And then within it, I am the founder of this. So I've got as a result, I've actually got an amazing group of colleagues around me who are just, you know, are there to help and support and mentor me so I don't feel like I'm on my own at all.
Leighann Lovely 39:31
That's great. And
Lisa Carlin 39:33
I can't explain to you the the excitement that I get when these initiatives that we build the momentum in organizations, it is just and now I can do it on scale, because I can teach other people those skills and I can tell you a story a story about that. If you want to know which one do you want to cover next I, okay, well, this is an example of a business that was actually not doing well at all. And it was in a division of a big organization. And the executive manager was not happy about how the performance was going. And so he asked me to go in and bring a team and, and help them. And that meant the manager of the unit, and the team. And when I got there, I saw reports that three other consultancies had done. And they all said roughly the same thing of what this team should do. But none of the things were implemented. And the teams were the team, the manager, and the managers, second in line, were very defensive, and did not were not happy with me being there. They felt like they were over consulted, they'd had three consulting teams, you know, they just did not want a fourth. And we had very unfriendly, quite hostile people. And what we did was we we worked with them to come up with an agenda, looking at what the consultants had recommended before, which were all interestingly, very similar. And what they thought about it, and what they thought the priorities were. And we we formed a joint team, and we use the design thinking principle of CO design or working with them together in a team, blended external folks and internal folks. And the engagement and appreciation was amazing, that, you know, we were lifting their skills and how to do a diagnosis of underperformance. And they were all and some of them were at very clerical levels as well. So it was just for them. They've never been exposed to this before. It's great. Now I tell you, Leanne, we things were going really well. So what I did, we had a progress review with it with the managers Manager, which is the executive who got me in upset head office. So I took the entire team, to that meeting, right through to the clerical people. We all got on the train together. And it was like, it's like, it's like the train system in Sydney is like the subway in New York, right? So we all got on. And we took the train up to head office where people hardly ever went into the boardroom. And I, you know, given everybody a cameo role to say, you know, contribute in some way. So it was slick, and it was tight. It wasn't like a, you know, a discussion that went on forever. So, they were so nervous on the train, because they'd never done this before. And that, you know, they hardly ever had any contact with the managers, the executive, the executive, the executive that I asked if these folks when I asked him, if these folks could come I was a little bit mystified that I would bring so many people to a meeting, right, but was great. He said, No problem. Sure. Yeah. It was amazing. I can't explain to you the, the buzz, you know, that interaction and the ownership that people had in what they were doing. They were empowered and on from there, they were empowered, and it was an amazing success. You know, the, the project was an amazing success. And these people, you know, went on to have the confidence and skills to do other things. And our relationships with these people still stay on today. And that's the amazing thing. I mean, if you would have thought,
Leighann Lovely 44:06
well, when you when you give people who think they have no voice of voice for the first time, it is it is remarkable. What they will finally that mean, they will finally sing, they will finally come out of their shell and, and it's it's amazing what you can do when you when you empower somebody to do something that they already have in them. I've watched it with with other people I've had given to me before, I mean, early on in my career when I was very green and you know, having somebody who you know have authorities say well yeah, I want to hear you I want to hear what you think and you just go what why I mean I'm I'm just the but when you enable Tell them, it's it's amazing how they will come out of their shell and then want to do better. Because now they have been seen. That's all they want, they want to be seen and heard, and that you're lighting a fire under them have passion for a cause that they feel they are part of. Up until that point, it was just a place they showed up to. Exactly. It's wildly and
Lisa Carlin 45:30
yeah, they felt sometimes people feel quite powerless in organizations.
Leighann Lovely 45:37
It's it happens. It happens way more frequently than then businesses are willing to acknowledge that that employees just feel like they don't have a voice. And when they do step forward and say, Well, I've got a problem. And then it never goes anywhere and they never hear back. It reinforces that they don't have a voice. And that happens not on purpose. But because managers are often especially middle managers, who are given the complaints, go to their managers, and then their managers never get back to them. And then what are they supposed to do? And the upper management has no idea how, how much that is influencing that first tier, the middle management can see it. And they're struggling in the middle going, well. What am I supposed to do? What am I supposed? And they'll go back to their employer. Oh, sorry, I never heard back. And then that that first year is going well. Okay, so I'm not important. So yeah, it just it and it's a cycle that continues. And, Lisa, I would love to continue this conversation. We are coming to time already. So I have the question of the season. I've been asking everybody, I hope you had a glance at this. What do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Lisa Carlin 47:10
So Leighann, I think it's all about digital and online. The you know, the changes that we've seen from the pandemic about people realizing they can work from home and be even more productive in some cases, but certainly as productive and moving to hybrid work, and doing things more in a more digital way, including, you know, online learning and upskilling themselves and shopping online and you know, doing more, more things online than ever before. It's just It's apparently that the tech experts say that we have through through just one year of COVID. We've done a 10 years, we've had 10 years of progress. And you know why I think that is interesting. It's interesting, because the technology was always there. Right? And it was the behavior of people and the adoption of people that wasn't you know, that has changed. That's what's made the difference? Yeah, it's cultural. It's a cultural, massive global cultural shift.
Leighann Lovely 48:13
Absolutely. I totally agree. If somebody wanted to reach out, how would they go about getting in contact with you.
Lisa Carlin 48:21
I would love to hear from folks. You can get ahold of me directly through LinkedIn, and also through our future builders group.com website. So thank you for asking the end. Perfect. And
Leighann Lovely 48:34
that will be on the show notes. So you can check the show notes. If you are looking to reach out to Lisa, I really appreciate you joined. Joining me today. This has been such an amazing conversation. I wish that we had more time to dive in to other you know, conversation or other topics. But again, thank you so much for joining me and you have a wonderful rest of your Thursday. Thank you, Leanne. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
transformation, grew, people, organization, business, work, amazing, sessions, month, mentor, program, day, lisa, success rate, initiatives, year, question, world, learning, builders
Wednesday Aug 30, 2023
Wednesday Aug 30, 2023
After learning so much in her amazing career at CVS Health through managing and hiring others Jennifer pivoted her career. Jennifer Chavez advocate of women, especially veteran women, owns her own recruitment firm where she helps them transition from military life to civilian life by finding positions at companies that are veteran-ready. This is an amazing story and an amazing women.
Contact Jennifer –
Phone Number - 623-387-8995
E-mail - jchavez@grnmoonvalley.com
Website – grnmoonvalley.com/
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann lovely. Let's get this conversation started. I have a great guest joining me today Jennifer Chavez. Jennifer is the president and Managing Director of Global recruiters network of Moonee Valley. Global recruiters of Moon Valley's expertise includes recruitment of executive and professionals across the United States in the our B M, healthcare services and Senior Living industries in management, financial operations, sales and project management roles as well as expertise in public speaking, consulting, and training services. As a senior health executive at CVS Health for more than 23 years across multiple sectors of the healthcare and pharmaceutical industry. She was responsible for leading client teams of all sizes and achieved significant success through developing and sourcing high performing talent. Serving as a volunteer Jennifer founded the Phoenix chapter of Next up formerly network of Executive Women, led their logistics team and recruited and developed volunteers for the last 10 years. Jennifer also grew up working in the restaurant business and is the wife of a chef. She is also the granddaughter, daughter, niece and mother of military veterans, and has served as a champion for attracting hiring and retaining women and veterans throughout her career. As a result of her work across these disciplines, Jennifer understands how critical matching exceptional talent to amazing employers is. Her goal is to leverage her knowledge, expertise and deep network to help candidates and companies achieve similar success with creating and retaining high performing teams. Whether you're a company that needs help finding the right person for a tough to fill role, or you're a candidate looking to find the right home, GRN Moon valleys is a maker of matches TM across the expertise to make a meaningful and lasting talent connection. GRN Moon Valley is a maker of matches. TM has the expertise to make a meaningful and lasting talent connection. Jennifer, welcome to the show. I'm excited to have you.
Jennifer Chavez 03:30
Thanks so much, man. I appreciate you having me.
Leighann Lovely 03:32
Yeah, so why don't we jump right in? Why don't you tell me a little bit about yourself?
Jennifer Chavez 03:36
Sure, absolutely. So first of all, kind of start with one of the unique things about me. And that's that I'm a second generation Phoenix native. And I actually have two boys that are third generation natives. So they're 17 and 24. They keep me busy. My husband who is a chef. I've been married to almost 30 years, and we're huge foodies. So that's something we like to do in our spare time. And he's originally from California. So we've have a place in the California mountains and we also have a place and of course the Arizona desert and we go between them. So I'm really lucky I consider myself lucky. Yeah,
Leighann Lovely 04:15
well that's amazing because what Arizona summers are what temperatures do you guys get to
Jennifer Chavez 04:20
when Oh 120 121 I think it's the high gets a little crazy in summertime. So once in a while
Leighann Lovely 04:32
it's so crazy you know obviously being Milwaukee you know Wisconsin whether we all summer comes in we're all like Oh let's spend every second outside. And for you guys summer comes in you're like oh my god don't go outside. You know you're
Jennifer Chavez 04:48
It's the rest of the year when everyone else is inside that we're out.
Leighann Lovely 04:53
Right right you guys are you have absolutely beautiful of course. Of course. You know I remember And I have an aunt who lives in Arizona. And I would come in the I would go visit her in the in the winter and she'd be outside wearing big fun of her. She, there was one year where my entire family who's not from Arizona, we went and visited her right. And we're all outside wearing T shirts and shorts. And she had, she had a fur coat on. I'm like, What are you doing? And she's like, it's so, so cold. I'm like, it's like 70 degrees. And she's like, I know, it's so cold. I'm like, Oh, my God. But you get a little too acclimated
Jennifer Chavez 05:41
maybe, right,
Leighann Lovely 05:43
you get you get acclimated to your, you know, I'm sure that if you came and spent, you know, a week in in the tundra, when we are in the deep, deep freeze, you'd be like, get me out of here.
Jennifer Chavez 05:58
Well, I have family from Minnesota. So I look then in the deep freeze in the tundra, but I try not to do it too often.
Leighann Lovely 06:05
Right? You go outside and instantly your nose hairs freeze, because did I just say that? But it's a real thing. It really, it's you walk outside just the small amount of moisture in your nose and nasal passages. And you're instantly like, oh, oh, it's too cold must go inside must cover every piece of skin that is exposed. But yeah, no. And that's awesome. So you get to go to California during the during the summer, I'm assuming?
Jennifer Chavez 06:39
Yes, absolutely.
Leighann Lovely 06:41
So Jennifer, why don't we go back to what you do for a living? We now know where you live? Where are you? You know, go back and forth between California and Arizona. Let's talk about you know, what do you do? What's your business?
Jennifer Chavez 06:58
Sure. Yeah, thanks for asking me. And so after 23 years, stellar career at CVS Health, I had a career pivot and had to really, you know, evaluate things and take some moments to soul search and figure out what did I want to do, and I and I did that. And I really decided to bet on myself. And I bought a recruiting franchise. And really, this is the culmination of what I've done over 23 years, I have been a leader at a fortune four company. I have interviewed, hired, trained, recruited, mentored, led 1000s and 1000s of people, and I have so much passion for just helping people achieve and be their best. And so all of the aspects that come along with recruiting is really just everything that I absolutely love to do. So that's what I decided just bet on myself and make that happen. And it's been amazing. And I've met so many wonderful, amazing people, and I get to help people in a meaningful way every day. So that's great.
Leighann Lovely 08:02
That's awesome. That is, that is absolutely awesome. It is. It is scary, though, to take that leap. So how did you finally decide? How did you finally decide? I'm going to I'm going to do this, and I'm going to, you know, wholeheartedly throw myself into entrepreneurship.
Jennifer Chavez 08:25
Right? Well, I guess the best way to say it is that, you know, sometimes things happen for a reason. And I truly believe that. And I think that had after my career pivot. And I really was genuinely trying to say, what do I want to do in career 2.0 and explore that? You know, after 23 years, I really never saw myself being in that position. So I definitely was having a bit of an identity crisis and trying to figure that out. Like, I've done this for almost 25 years, oh, my gosh, what do I do next? And so when I really took that moment to, to invest in myself, and really soul search and think about what that is, it kind of came to me through two ways. First of all, when I was doing that, and working towards those things, and considering them, I was super excited. And there was a lot of it was scary, but it was also fun. And when I thought about, you know, doing some of the things that I had done, you know, previously, it really just didn't feel like the right thing to do. So some of it was instinct, but very honestly, had I really gotten an excellent, great job and the time period when I was searching, I probably would have gone back. I mean, honestly, it was fear. Fear was really like I've done this for so long, you know, on somebody else's dime, doing it on my own Can I do it? And I really had to dig deep and my resources of myself and say, I know I can do this. I've got this. I've done it for them. I can do it for other people. And I had a lot of great encouragement from some wonderful friends and mentors, who said, This is what you're born to do. You were meant to do this, this is absolutely your life's path, you need to be helping people in this way. So a confluence of those three things is really what led me to that decision. And I really feel like God probably had a hand in that. Sometimes your prayers are answered by them not being answered.
Leighann Lovely 10:27
That's amazing. So tell me a little bit about well, actually, before we get into that, when you and I first spoke, I know that one of your passions, you know, first of all, you and I connected on so many different levels. It was just an amazing, you know, first meeting first con, you know, conversation. But you had mentioned that you really focus on helping women, women, that trends transition into the civilian world. Yeah, I want to talk about that, because it's, it's so amazing, because the majority of the people who I have worked with who understand one, veterans, right, and then understand the staffing and hiring world have come to truly understand the difficulty that that exists with translating, you know, a military job. Yes, into this the civilian world? Because, you know, when you talk about an MOS, yeah, job title there. Yes, it doesn't exist. Right? It doesn't know. And so, so many people get overlooked. Fes Yes, for for jobs.
Jennifer Chavez 11:52
Absolutely. And I will tell you that this really came to my attention very clearly. Because my son is in the military, and he's a veteran now. But when he was in the military, at the very same time, my company at the time, CVS, was doing training for their leaders, they we had great diversity and inclusion programs. And military was a huge focus. And I was part of our colleague, resource group that supported military, I have a lot of military family members. And before I even knew my son was considering a military career, that was a whole left field decision for him that I wasn't expecting, but I was supportive of him doing it. And, you know, it's been a pretty amazing learning experience for me as an Army mom. And really, you know, at the same time getting all of that training and understanding very clearly as a hiring leader at a very big company, what the huge gap was, and why I didn't really understand why those things were difficult to translate until I had experienced it myself. And so that really kind of clicked for me at the time, like, wow, there is really a lot of experience that get in the military, that it's really hard to translate into the civilian world, and sometimes hard for people to understand, if you haven't experienced it, the resiliency and the discipline and the you know, so many wonderful leadership qualities that are just absolutely, that's the whole military program is, you know, that is all the training and everything that everybody gets for the entire military. And you might have a specialty your MOS and things like that, that you learn a particular job. But that, and there's value in that too. But there's so much of you know, what the military teaches that is just really awesome for business, how to be on time every day. Start there. It's an I talk to people every day. So I talked to both individuals, candidates, and I talked to clients. And so it's, they really need each other women and veterans and those two things coming together. It's just one of those things that I'm I can see the need. And I love helping people and I can help bridge that gap and bring people together. And when I do, it's amazing. And you know, so I'm just super passionate about it. And I definitely seek out and promote and try to help as many people that I can.
Leighann Lovely 14:32
Yeah, and, you know, something that you said in there, you know, how to be on time, how to, how to show up and, and show up in a manner that is appropriate to work. Right. You know, you can't just you can't just stumble in the door. You know, right, tired and non productive and expect to before your day. Right, ready for your day? You know, and I'm flashing back to the days where I was in my 20s were like, Yeah, well, I'm here. Why? Why? I'm, what do you mean? I'm in trouble I showed up today. It's like, Well, you look like you rolled out of bed and you can barely keep your head, uh, you know, up off your desk, that's not exactly showing up. You know, you're physically here. Right. And that brings me, you know, to a, you know, a while ago, I was I was working with an organization that helped men and women who were transitioning out of jail, or out of band. And that was one of the things that they were teaching was how to set an alarm clock. So that they could get out of Secretary Smith. Yeah, it is. But for somebody who's been in prison for, say, five years,
Jennifer Chavez 16:03
they're institutionalized. They everything is controlled for them. Correct.
Leighann Lovely 16:07
So if you have a military, you know, somebody who's in the military, the idea of being late for them is not it's not an option. Right? It's that's not that's not even.
Jennifer Chavez 16:22
You can't on time as expected,
Leighann Lovely 16:25
correct. There is no being late. Yeah. And punishment for being late in the military is it's a big deal. Severe. Correct. So the core values just instilled in a military personnel are through the roof compared to other individuals. But there is a learning curve when it comes to working with somebody who is transitioning from military to civilian world, because the majority of unless you're in a high ranking position, all of the job duties, all of they are handed out, you are told here is your job here is the end result here, there is no there is no in between for that person to make decisions. And that is that is what is difficult for companies to understand.
Jennifer Chavez 17:29
Right? Right. Chain of Command following orders and not using judgment. Yes, there are times when the in their jobs when they need to use judgment. But from an assignment perspective, they don't want them to they just want them to do exactly what they're told. Right. And so it is it definitely those nuances are really important. And that's so thank you so much for understanding that and for bringing it up and highlighting it. And we're going to be doing a training session in September. And it's going to be actually on September 27. And it is sponsored by myself, as well as my partner in crime, Lieutenant Colonel Kathy galatz. She is a Vanguard veteran, and leads women who lead that I'm a part of, and she's just amazing. But she's invited me to come help share my recruiting expertise with the audience and really help train people on onboarding, hiring retaining veterans. And part of that is exactly what you talked about. It's what is the culture onboarding and ongoing process that you have to assimilate veterans into a civilian kind of environment and helping them make that transition successfully. And they are very adaptable, and they can definitely learn, but they just need a little bit of help to make that transition. And so companies who really make the effort to do that can reap so many great rewards from it. And so I'm super excited about it, and will provide additional details on how to get tickets to the event. But I just so passionate about being able to deliver this information to companies and individuals
Leighann Lovely 19:17
now is this is this event live or is it virtual? How?
Jennifer Chavez 19:22
That's a great question. It's actually both we're gonna do it in person at the Mac sex Entrepreneurial Center in Tempe, Arizona, and they have generously donated the space for us to be able to provide that. And also we are going to be doing that from an online presence as well so people can attend online. So it really opens up the ability for people to be able to attend. So if you want some in person networking, come join us in person if you'd like to be able to attend online. We will be doing that too. So right September 20. statements from eight to 11.
Leighann Lovely 20:01
Yeah, that's and that's awesome. Because, again, you know, the the failure rate of veterans transitioning into roles is so high and that, and I, I've asked so many people, why is that? Why is it and, and I get I get different answers. But one of the answers that always stands out is because it comes down to the feet fear, it comes down to the company ends up fearing that they don't want to. They're afraid of offending. Right, that veteran like, well, I don't want to go to them and tell them, you know, you're supposed to be doing it this way. Because, you know, they served in the army they should or not, aren't they served in the military? You know, like, I feel like if I'm, it's almost like, well, just because they served doesn't, right, they understand your job, you have to train them, just like any other person. And in some cases even more, because they've lived in an environment where there was no black. No, there was no gray, it was black. And it was white. Right? Here are your instructions, follow them to a tee, do not color outside the lines. Right period. You're asking them to make independent decisions. And that is not the lifestyle they have ever lived. Right? So now you, you know, and and companies are like, Well, yeah, but if I go there and say, Well, you got to do it differently. Am I going to offend this veteran who is, you know, such an amazing human for doing what they've done, and they should know better? And know, you're not going to offend? do offend the other employees when you go and say, Hey, do this different?
Jennifer Chavez 22:00
Right. You know, it's so interesting about that comment. And I've had a little bit of an aha moment, as I've been working with Kathy, and part of the what we'll deliver to the attendees at the event, is a checklist that kind of helps, like, what are some of those things that you can do real practical solutions to put things in place? But I guess, you know, from that standpoint, you know, when you are asking anybody to your point, to do something at your company, what I learned when I read through the checklist was, these are just best practices for any person. And so what works for any human being works for a military person, you have rules, you have guidelines, you have expectations, you communicate them to your team, and then you help them achieve their goals and expectations by being a great leader and helping them with resources. So that's really all it is. And I think it's just a lot of people don't know, and because they don't understand, I think it does lead to that fear. So I think you're right on.
Leighann Lovely 23:01
Right. But that's not unique to veterans. No, it is, it isn't. I mean, I think that the majority of our decision making comes down to a couple of things fear, unknown, you know, the unknown, uncommon, uncomfortableness, which all really falls into the same bucket. It all comes down to emotions on how is this going to make me feel? Am I going to make somebody else feel? I mean, that that's what it is where people so it all comes down, it all boils down to emotion. And then of course, there's another bucket, which is the money bucket. How much is this going to cost me? And can I afford it? Yes. I mean, there's not a whole ton of buckets on when it comes to decision making. There's right? I mean, it's pretty simple.
Jennifer Chavez 23:54
What I find fascinating about the human brain that I think a lot of people don't understand, everyone thinks that you when you make decisions that your mate using logic, decision base is always emotion. And so we just have to know that and know that we're emotional creatures. And you know, you have to manage your emotions and you have to manage emotions in the workplace. And everybody's responsible for doing that for themselves. But as a leader, you have an extra responsibility to help people. And so all that's normal, that's just part of being human. So we just have to help each other out. Right?
Leighann Lovely 24:27
Yeah, absolutely. You know, as a sales professional on top of, you know, my audience knows that I have now transitioned into being an entrepreneur, myself sales professional. I tell people constantly, people do not buy on logic, as much as you try to explain to them this is a really logic like, this is a logical decision. It's going to help your business. You're talking to a wall, you might as well be, you know, If they don't like you, they're not going to buy from you. They buy on emotion, justify on logic. Right? Exactly. And of story, it's same with, you know, you go to a clothing store, if you put something on that makes you feel beautiful. You are going to justify why you're spending that money. Even if you don't have it. When you get up to that register, you're going to find a way to justify it. Well, I, I need it or I, I, you know, I have to have this because, you know, then you go home and your husband or your wife is like, what are you doing? Well, I had to buy it because yeah, no, you didn't. Right. It's it's an emotional, why do you think that they put all of the you know, candy and the, you know, the quick, emotional? Oh, chocolate, that'll make me feel happy. At the restaurant, anyways. Okay, I digress. And I do all the time.
Jennifer Chavez 26:06
That's part of life. It's fun. Right? Take side side roads.
Leighann Lovely 26:10
So you had mentioned another organization that you're part of lead? What is the name of it? Women who lead women who lead? Yeah, so tell me. Tell me about that. More? Yeah.
Jennifer Chavez 26:27
Yeah. So women who lead is sponsored by Vanguard veteran, my friend, Kathy galettes. And what its mission is, is really to equip civilians, to support veterans, and specifically women in particular. And so this is a monthly meeting, it is free, and it is virtual, that really has different individuals that can come on and share some of the information that they have, from their perspective, to share with the audience. And as long as it supports the mission. There's all kinds of different topics that we talked about. So I'm actually going to be presenting on September 13, that women who lead and I'm going to talk about leading yourself through transitions. And so it's really it's for everybody, but really, it is also specifically some tips and tricks in there, for helping civilians on how they can support military individuals who are going through transition, whether they're coming out of the military, maybe their military spouse who's experiencing a transition, or you know, any number of other types of transitions and careers that people go through. But it's really just a great group of people that get together and share ideas and information about how to best help and support that community and get connected with other people who are like minded and additional resources. And so anyway, it's I can also share the information about how to get connected with that if anybody would like to, you know, check out the content and attend. It's free, and it's virtual. And it's also in person. So if you're in the Phoenix area, they have a monthly networking opportunity there as well.
Leighann Lovely 28:08
That's great. That's absolutely awesome. And it's in in you said it's also virtual, so anybody can join online. And that's yes, that's great. Yes,
Jennifer Chavez 28:18
all you have to do is register, and they send you the link to dial in from zoom and the information to attend in person. So it's your choice.
Leighann Lovely 28:28
Well, that's great. That's absolutely awesome. Yes. So I want to refocus. When you and I talked, you had mentioned something that I find Well, I find wildly fascinating because again sales and it's not just sales that you have to do this and there's many different fields that you have to do this in but for me, it's you know, sales and I I'm like a dog with a bone when it comes to this kind of stuff. But you had mentioned to me that you love to negotiate.
Jennifer Chavez 28:59
Yes,
Leighann Lovely 29:00
I have. I love like a negotiation battle with you. Because it's, you know, it gets my heart pumping like okay, how can I and again, not like an in a in a I was gonna say violent you know, I don't think there's violent negotiation but like in that in that sport way of like, okay, how can I you know, do that? Yeah, sure that competitive nature how can I do the best for my client if I'm negotiating on behalf of my client and in the recruiting industry? Obviously my background in recruiting one of the things I always used to explain to my candidates when when working with them was hey, you know, tell me what your what your base level like I can make it if I'm making this much money, what is your I would love to make you know this much is that's really a great number. What is your absolute like, this would make my life fabulous, I could go on and extra vacations. And then I would say, look, the more money you make, the more money I make. Right? But I also have to do right by my clients, right? And make sure that I'm not pricing you out of the market. And they're like, Oh, okay. And when you explain that to them, all the sudden they're like, Oh, so you're not the enemy. You're not going to try to undercut me? No, of course, I'm not going to try to undercut you. I want you to make as much as you possibly can. But you also can't price yourself out of the market so that they immediately go to the other candidate and say, Yeah, their way. They're asking for way too much. Absolutely. And then it was like, I'm ready to go. So tell me about your negotiation. Itch.
Jennifer Chavez 30:52
Yes. So I have always loved to negotiate. My parents taught me from an early age to negotiate. I'll explain a little My mom was a yard sale queen, and she absolutely loved yard saleing. And she would take me with her, I was very little. And I remember the first negotiation I ever did was at a yard sale. And I had $2 of allowance money that I had to spend. And I had seen two things that I wanted, there was a book and there was this cute little yellow sundress with a little jacket. And I just wanted that dress so bad. But I didn't have enough money for both so and went to my mom. And I was like, Well, you know, shout him to her. And she goes, Well, you have your allowance money. How much does it cost? And how much do you have? And so I was like, not enough. She's like, Well, why don't you go? She goes, the lady over there is running the yard. So why don't you go talk to her? And just ask her maybe if she would take us for it. Like, oh, how much should I offer her? She goes, Well, how much do you have? Anyway, I went and I talked to the woman. And so I tried to negotiate with her. And I ended up getting not only the dress, but the book for my $2. So I learned an important lesson that day, right? But it was she made it you know, fun. And it was an opportunity for me to learn in a pretty safe environment. But I kept practicing. And, you know, my dad was also used car salesman saw my first car and negotiated on my own with his assistants. So I'm just I've had that training and background. So that's kind of what spurred me to really just, I just do without thinking about it all the time. I negotiate everything, whenever I can, just because I love it right. And it's fun. Most people think it's more like going to the dentist. And so what I've learned is that 20% of women don't negotiate anything ever. Because they even feel that talking about it or even bring it up is just not something they're comfortable doing. And so I just have a super passion for helping people understand. All negotiating is is talking to someone and coming to an agreement mutually for something that you both want, right?
Leighann Lovely 33:16
You know, it's so funny, because let me see, I was I think I was 22. And I was driving down the highway, my car had been totaled, and then rebuilt at almost totaled. The front end had been been rebuilt. And and I knew it wasn't gonna last, but the insurance company wouldn't total it out. So I'm driving down the highway and my timing belt just broke. And instead of dropping out the bottom of the car, for some reason, it went up into the car. And if anybody knows anything about vehicles as they're listening to this, what happened was the car completely seized and the engine just basically. I mean, everything just started, you know, water squirting out and I'm like the car is done. There is no coming back. And to try to go back to an insurance company like this was probably a year and a half later, to try to go back and say, Well, this was from the original accident would have been a nightmare. I didn't have the funds to go and fight it. I didn't have right. Well, right down the street from me, probably about a mile and a half down the street. was a was a Ford shop and I was driving a Ford. I owed $263 in note $223.63 on that car. I quickly looked up how much I owed on the correct. So I called the dealership and I said can you come and tow my car to your dealership? And they said yeah, we can do that. And I'm like, thank you. They gave me because it was like right down the road and they were available they like they're like we're not going to charge you for it. And I was like, excellent. Basically, they said, We're not going to charge you for it. If you're gonna get it fixed, you're great. I get there. And I said, You know what, I'm not going to fix it, I'm going to junk it. And actually, I'm not going to junk it. The sales guy came up to me and I said, I'd like to talk to you about buying a car, and he goes, Okay, and I said, I'll do it today. But you have to give me $223 $223.63 For my car, and he goes, that's a really specific number. I said, Uh huh. And he goes, Why so specific? I said, because it's exactly what I owe for a car that will not drive sitting on your lot right now. And he goes, Oh, okay. He goes, What do you mean, it won't drive? I said, the engine is cease. Right? I said, it is undriveable. And it will never drive again. Right? I'm like, you basically have an engine block that is done. And he's like, how do I know that? And I'm like, because I've had this happen before. I've had a lot of crappy cars. Oh, no. And he's like, Well, we're gonna have the guys look at it and see what we can do. And I'm like, what you can do is strip it and sell it for parts or use it for parts, right? And he goes, Well, I don't know if if they're gonna, if if they'll pay you that for your car. That doesn't work. And I'm like, well, then I'll walk and I'll go buy a car somewhere else. And he goes, really? Over 200. Nice. Yep. over that.
Jennifer Chavez 36:30
And he feels principle of nothing.
Leighann Lovely 36:32
Exactly. It comes down to the principle of it. And I said, But in the meantime, I'm going to go look on your lot. And I'm going to find a car that I want. And I'm going to drive away with it today. If you agree to my terms. I found a car. I think they came down about to two or $3,000 on the sticker price. It was a brand new car. I mean, remember, this is years ago. And he goes, Okay, you know, we're going to offer you the $223.63 for your car. I got my finance manager to agree to it. I'm doing quotes right now, because the whole finance manager crap is just irritating. So, um, so you know, now we're negotiating the price of the new car. And I'm like, Well, I'm not going to pay the sticker price, you know, blah, blah, blah, and we go over that we go over that we sit down, he goes, Wow, you are really, really, really asking for a lot. And I said, I am not asking for a lot. So we get to the whole negotiation parties like Okay, so are you ready to sign in? I said, I actually not yet. I said, I know that you can throw in some free oil changes. And he goes, what? And I'm like, hot. Come on. This is not my first time. I know. I'm young. But this is not my first time buying your car. I said I bought this new car, like three years ago. And I'm like so and I had worked at a dealership. By the way. I had worked at a car dealership. Oh my goodness. So he goes, Okay, fine. We'll throw in some free car washes. And I said, Okay, so for a year to cover on my car, what not car washes, oil changes, right for a year, he covered all my oil changes, got a whole bunch of tickets for that so I can bring it back and get my oil changes. And then as I'm signing all the papers, he goes, God I feel like you're you're just basically robbing me blind. And I said no, robbing you blind would say I would be robbing you blind, I would tell you that you need to take the Ford shirt off that you're wearing. So I can walk up this walk out with some swag from Ford. And he started laughing. And he goes, I do have some swag. So I walked out of there with a brand new car. They paid off my other car. And he gave me some swag and oil changes.
Jennifer Chavez 38:40
Oh my gosh, that's awesome. I'm going after my own heart. Right.
Leighann Lovely 38:44
And I've been I was only like, 20 I don't know what year is that? That had to have been like 2223. And I remember when I got home, my dad goes, you bought a new car? And I'm like, yeah, and he goes, Well, you should have let me come there. And I said, Oh, no. Dad, and I told my dad that story. He was like, Oh my God.
Jennifer Chavez 39:04
That's an awesome story. And I love it. And you
Leighann Lovely 39:07
know, every time I've ever bought a car from now on, you know, I've always I've always because, you know they do so many run arounds and and all you have to do to you know to them is hey, I'm walking. I'm gonna go across the street and buy a car over there. But you just have
Jennifer Chavez 39:25
to actually pick up your feet and leave and then they come running after you.
Leighann Lovely 39:29
Correct. And I've done it. I've walked out the door and I don't need this car. Well nowadays. Right? You might, but I mean back then it was I can go across the street. I can drive 15 minutes down in given that I've always had a really high credit score, that there's other people that don't have the luxury of having. But yes, that was that was my My first real hardcore like negotiating for. And again, I had inside knowledge, I know how much commission they make on new cars versus, you know, used cars which used cars way more commission at that time. You know, it was just
Jennifer Chavez 40:19
so had all the secret sauce
Leighann Lovely 40:21
I've never been, I've never been a woman who was who was shy to be like, No, I'm gonna see what I can get from, you know out of this.
Jennifer Chavez 40:31
And so if you can imagine Lian, every woman in the world doing what you and I just talked about negotiating their own car deals, not taking it when people give them a price, you know, try to negotiate down whenever you can. And I mean, everybody is, you know, some things are negotiable. And some things aren't. But it doesn't hurt to try. But I can say it was no, my dad's favorite saying that he always taught me and this is going to be the name of my book is find out what they won't take.
Leighann Lovely 41:03
Yeah, it's everything. Well, obviously, you can't walk into a store and be like, hey, I'll give you $25 for a $50 item. But you know, the price is the price, but everybody will pay a price for something. And there's always a way to bring a price down. If somebody is willing, or somebody wants to sell something. It's just, you just got to find the common ground. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, absolutely. I am 100%. with you on that. Well, we are no, we've got a little bit more time. So tell me about let me see. So you've got quite a few different groups that you support. Tell me about steps and WSN.
Jennifer Chavez 41:58
Yeah, so those were the two initial groups, the women's leadership groups at CVS stops was started on the retail side of the business. And WSN was the women's success network. And that was on the pharmacy benefit management side of the business. And I was a leader in both and I was responsible for bringing both groups together as one to have one integrated women's support network. So anyway, I've always just felt super passionate about helping other women, I have had a lot of super strong, wonderful female mentors in my life, that have given me lots of great career advice and help along the way. And so I've always been very passionate about giving back. And being a part of those two organizations then led me to start network of executive women, which is something that I started in the Phoenix region with a couple of other really great ladies that worked for other major companies in the Phoenix area. And we started it and I led it for 10 years as a logistics officer. And I was a speaker for them and mentor. And so it just it led me to a lot of really amazing things, just you know, kind of following my passion and trying to help mentor other female leaders and help them grow in their careers. So longtime passion,
Leighann Lovely 43:24
and what are the main types of roles that you place people in?
Jennifer Chavez 43:30
Yes, so that's a great question. My focus is largely I have a few different areas of expertise. So healthcare and Pharmacy Benefits Management biopharma is really my my main one, I spent 23 years and in that area, certified pharmacy technician and all kinds of experience there. But also, when I started this went into senior living. And that's really the same skill sets and same profile for hiring for a lot of individuals in the healthcare industry in its healthcare, Jason. So I placed a lot of people in those areas. And then also my clients have been franchise owners. And so that kind of has led me and I'm a franchise, female franchise, entrepreneur myself. So that's really also led me to really understanding how franchises work and really being able to specialize and help them from a recruiting perspective. Because usually, especially when you're first starting, you are both working on the business and in the business as an individual owner. And then you may grow over time. Some people start off with more than that, but there's a pretty specific challenge to that. And so because I really understand that and can help people in a lot of different ways from a recruiting perspective, that's been really successful for me too. So those are my main three areas. And then I'll just throw in there that my husband is a shop and the general manager for his entire career, and we're a significant foodie, so I've spent a lot of time in the restaurant business have no expertise there, too.
Leighann Lovely 45:02
Awesome. So we are coming to time, I want to ask you the question of the season. What what do you think will go down in the history books, from what has what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Jennifer Chavez 45:18
Well, LeAnn, I absolutely love that question. And I think the answer is AI, artificial intelligence. And, I mean, there's a lot of things that have been really impactful, right. But I've just seen so much energy about artificial intelligence, especially recently, and I'm dabbling into it myself, as you mentioned, from a sales perspective, you know, that's what I do all day. And so there's, especially for recruiting and sales, there's really a lot of applicability of some of the capabilities that artificial intelligence has. And I know a lot of people, there's a lot of fear and things out there too. But I think it's probably like any other tool that we have, we will learn more about it, it will, you know, mold and shape over time, but I just really feel like, you know, the, I've been using it for applications even like, Okay, write me up a press release chat. GPT. What does that look like, I'm I'm not a press release expert. I don't know what the format is and how to write them. I call it my virtual assistant. So, you know, just to do things that, you know, maybe we would have spent a lot of time doing that aren't value added. So we can move up the ladder and be more strategic in the way that we spend our time. And I really feel like that has a lot of help for business. And I don't think, you know, I know, there's a lot of worry out there about it replacing people. But I'm sure everyone thought, you know, probably when the internet came out, or you know, when monster.com came out, you know, that everything, you know, humans were no longer going to be needed. But what I've learned over time is just that, you know, technology is really what you make it and I think that you know, you can use it for good or you could use it for not, but it does really help us it has a lot of influence. So for me, history books, that's that's my vote.
Leighann Lovely 47:12
Absolutely. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Jennifer Chavez 47:17
If they want to reach me, my phone number is 623-387-8995. That's probably one of the easiest and most direct ways to reach me. I also have my email address is my first initial and my last name. So J Chavez Cha V as in Victor E z at G R n. And that stands for Global recruiters network. So grn Moon valley.com. So J Chava. Is at grn valley.com.
Leighann Lovely 47:45
Perfect. Jennifer, this has been such an amazing conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to talk with me.
Jennifer Chavez 47:52
Absolutely. Man, you've been a wonderful host and thank you so much for kindly inviting me and allowing me to share my message.
Leighann Lovely 48:00
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
car, military, people, negotiate, feel, transition, absolutely, working, companies, veterans, jennifer, years, led, expertise, talk, grn, sales, arizona, spent, recruiting
Wednesday Aug 23, 2023
Wednesday Aug 23, 2023
Planning an event is hard, they are meant to be fun, educational, festive, and so many other things. What we don’t think about, is that planning an event is not just about all the detail of who will speak, how many chairs you need, it is also about how to keep your attendees as safe as possible if and when things come up. This week's guest shines a light on what an event hall is responsible for and what the host is responsible for. Tune in, because I was shocked!
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both, because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely, let's get this conversation started. I have Sarah Davis joining us today. She is the CEO of event safety plus, where they focus in mitigating safety concerns before they happen at events and ensuring a proper response should they occur. They work with people to organize events, large and small, determine risk factors and create easy to execute safety plans. This is going to be an awesome opportunity to learn about how to make sure that the events that we all put on are safe and have the great plans that need to be put in place are in place. So I'm excited to jump into this conversation with her today. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me today.
Sarah Davis 02:01
It is wonderful to be here. Thank you for having me.
Leighann Lovely 02:03
So you, you have such an amazing, interesting business. So I'm excited to talk with you. Why don't you start off by telling us a little bit about yourself?
Sarah Davis 02:16
Sure. So I am the CEO of event safety plus, and we work with event planners, anyone planning an event to mitigate safety concerns before they happen. And create safety plans for those events are goals that everyone should be able to attend things safely. But me personally, I live outside of Chicago, I lived here since before COVID. So I haven't really explored much, which is funny. But we'll we'll do that eventually right born and raised in Michigan. And we started this company about a year ago now because we were at an event where an active shooter happened, it was a parade and with our background, my partner and I our background in emergency services and emergency management, we saw some things that with a little bit of extra planning could have been way different and less impactful on the community. And we we knew that we could make a difference. And we knew we can make a change with those things. So we started the company.
Leighann Lovely 03:24
So and first. Wow. I mean for being at an event. That's such a scary, I mean, even even being blocks away and hearing that you're hearing gunshots or hearing any type of it's just such an amazing ly amazingly terrifying. situation I've been, and I was in my home when this happened, but when gunshots ring out and you just immediately you know that that fear factor because you have no idea where it's coming from where it's pointed. So, I mean, first of all, that's it's amazing that that idea, you know, at that point came up for you. And to that you've you've taken on, you know, a position, an opportunity to say, hey, let's create something that can actually help mitigate, you know, risk in situations like this. And I'm assuming that this is not or that there is not a whole ton of companies out there that do what you do.
Sarah Davis 04:38
No, no, there are a few companies that give you some tools to kind of do it yourself and make a plan and offer you know, some 30 minutes courses, things like that. But But the bigger thing is that people that plan events are creative. They're planners, they want to you know make the event beautiful Well, they want everybody to have fun, right? And a lot of event planners or people that plan events, because that everybody that plans that event has that title. They're not trained in what risk factors and what safety factors can happen at their event. And we're talking just little things. I'm not even talking big things like an active shooter or a tornado, we're talking, what would happen if somebody had a heart attack at your event? Does somebody know how to use the AED machine? Or do CPR? Or are you yelling for somebody who knows CPR in the crowd, it would be so much easier if the event planners or the coordinators had those skill sets to make sure that people can be taken care of. Those are just some small things that factor into the reason we started this.
Leighann Lovely 05:53
So explain to me, obviously, it's not something that many people think about it large or small, I mean, there's there potentially could be risk at a very, you know, a 20 person event versus a 350 person event, obviously, risk goes up, the larger the event is, more people you have, you know, higher risk that somebody could have a heart attack or slice the risk on a garbage can that has a whatever, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So explain to me, when you, you know, when you first start talking to people, you know, what is the responsibility of, for instance, like a hall? Or of the location that they're going to, versus the responsibility of the person who's planning the actual event? Where is there? You know, whose responsibility is is what and where that fall?
Sarah Davis 06:57
Sure, and that's a an amazing question. Because a lot of people think, if they rent out, say, a hall for a work event, or something like that, and it's attached to a hotel, just, I'm living groundwork here, you know, and the fire alarm goes off, it's your responsibility, not the hotels to get your people out safely, they are not going to come down to the hall and help you get out, they're all getting out of the hotel. And they hope you do too. They they wish you no ill will, right. They're not like, you know, hoping you don't get out. They all but they are not coming down to help you evacuate your people, you need to evacuate the hall yourself, you need to know where those exits are. And you need to have a plan to get everybody out. And this is where a lot of times, if you've ever rented a spot, and people that are listening, probably have done this to where you get in there and all the tables are lined up in a specific manner, right, or all the circle tables are in a specific location. And then you know what you want to do breakouts, you want to do this. So you start moving the tables, and somebody from the hotel walks by and he's like, No, you can't do that. Because if the fire alarm goes off, and the tables aren't where they put them, they can't guarantee it, that you meet the fire code to be able to get out of that room. And that's their, that's their responsibility to make sure that you need the fire code to get out of the room. But if you mess it up, it's not on your plate to to make sure people have the paths to get out. And if you move all those tables, they may not. So back to your original question. It's the event planner, or the host of the event, it's their responsibility to know the hazards that can come into play, and have a proper plan should they occur.
Leighann Lovely 08:45
That's wildly interesting. And here's why. Because I'm going to guess the majority of the people that you speak with it, especially when it comes to hey, I'm going to rent out this small hall and I'm going to have a 25 person birthday party. Yeah. And they I'm going to guess that they say, well, it would be the hotel's responsibility to make sure that if something were to go wrong, that they're going to help us out.
Sarah Davis 09:14
No, right. And I know it isn't, it's their responsibility to make sure that the fire alarm and the sprinklers are working, and that there is a path for you to get out. But 98% of the time, they don't provide even an exit strategy for you unless you ask. So if you do ask most hotels and conference centers say these are our 10 exits, right? This is the closest one to you. And they have something to the effect of what you see on the back of hotel room doors, where it's like if the smoke alarm goes off, follow this and you'll get to your nearest exit, right. They would have that for conference rooms too, but they're not coming to help you.
Leighann Lovely 09:56
Right. And and what is the first thing that you know when I I go to an event or when I've helped set up an event, the one of the first things that people do is start going, Okay, where are we going to move these tables to make it effective for us to do XYZ? And up and that, I mean, it happens. If I can't read or write, I can't think of a place that I've gone that when I'm helping setup, that's like one of the first things that people do.
Sarah Davis 10:24
Yeah, yeah. And that is something that you should not do that I do not recommend doing. Right? Because you can throw off your exit strategy should need to exit. Interesting. Most people go into these events, though, with the mentality of that's never going to happen to me. And so that that is something that we have encountered a lot too.
Leighann Lovely 10:49
Right. So, now let's talk a little bit more about injury or, you know, like saying outdoor events. So, you know, we have some of these? Well, I have a couple of events coming up that, you know, one is is an outdoor, very large event. So let's, let's, let's talk about what is the responsibility of, say, the grounds when it comes to somebody slips, falls, bangs their head, and now they need emergency support of some kind to be taken to the nearest hospital? Or what is the responsibility of the person who's putting on the event versus the responsibility of the grounds to make sure that there is a safe, quick way to get them off the grounds or emergency care?
Sarah Davis 11:39
Sure, sure. So there's two answers to that. It depends on where you're renting outside, and what you've agreed to beforehand. So if you're renting a outdoor venue, and they're providing grounds crew, for you, in some sort of safety measures, right, like they're providing people to park cars and stuff like that, because some places want cars parked under a certain spot, and whatever, they may have an opportunity for you to say, will you help us if safety concerns happen? Okay, but go ahead.
Leighann Lovely 12:16
And I'm just gonna, is that a question you have to ask?
Sarah Davis 12:19
Yes. 100%? That is a question you have to ask, when you're signing that agreement, whatever that agreement ends up being. But 98% of the time, when you do an outdoor event, you're doing it in a park or a fairgrounds, or, you know, pick a location, they may have people that are changing the trash for you. And sometimes they don't even have that it might be your responsibility. But 90% of the time, they are not providing people that will help in those situations, they are not going to provide you medical services or transportation for your people out of the location to the hospital, none of that. So your choices, I have a medical tenant with, you know, maybe a nurse that is there to help with immediate concerns. And I call 911 If something were to happen, or you just call 911 and waves, and I think get into why that's not always the best scenario,
Leighann Lovely 13:20
right? Depending on the city that you're in, depending on the location, you're sad, it's response time can be 12 minutes or two minutes, depending on how populated the city is. Or exactly, or it can be 21 minutes
Sarah Davis 13:34
Or how remotes how remote you are. Yeah. So if you're in an area that has, you know, volunteer fire department, it could be 20 to 30 minutes before somebody can get there.
Leighann Lovely 13:45
Right? So if you're dealing with a heart attack, that's the difference between life and death.
Sarah Davis 13:51
Yep.
Leighann Lovely 13:53
Processing. Yeah, every interest.
Sarah Davis 13:56
It can be scary, it can be scary. And this is where sometimes what I do, and the stories that I tell can get a little scary. And that's why what we do is so important, because we want people to go to events to have fun. We saw all of the planning, and all of the safety concerns can be done beforehand. And, you know, pre planned for and all of that. So if something does happen, it can be taken care of quickly, and the fun can continue to happen. Right? And I know you're gonna say it's hard to have fun if somebody has a heart attack. So take that out of the situation for a hot second. But let's take a sprained ankle, right. If you're at a large wedding venue and someone's sprained their ankle in the middle of the dance floor, you want to have a plan to move them get them somewhere safe. You know, do we need to call 911? Do we need to just wrap it, you don't leave them in the middle of the dance floor and have people dance around them? slightly funny but not appropriate. Right?
Leighann Lovely 14:55
Sorry, I know. I'm laughing because it's it's ridiculous. Uh, that somebody would do that. But then you take into account that, in most, you know, most, a lot of these places you have a lot of intoxicated people and Right. Right. So and it's interesting because now as you're, as you're bringing these things up, I'm going through my my rolodex in my head of wow, I've been at a baseball game, where a a friend gots a ring, crunched in a door, and then that ring was actually bent and started pinching off the circulation to her finger, where, you know, immediately we had to go to, you know, at the stadium, they had a full blown nurse's station, and ended up having to do it. Right. So we immediately called one of the attendants, what do we do? Where do we go, they had a full blown Medical Center on the first floor had to go down, they ended up having to actually cut the ring off, right? You know, and in that situation, if that wasn't the I mean, it would have been get out of the stadium, go to the emergency room.
Sarah Davis 16:11
And that would have been go to your car, get out of the parking lot, go to the emergency room, that could have been a 30 to 40 minute adventure correct in order to get it cut it off. Whereas in this case, it was probably seven done in 15 minutes.
Leighann Lovely 16:25
And in less than that. And sure, sure, finger was perfectly fine. She was actually able to enjoy the rest of the day, other than the fact that she just lost a ring. But, you know, that could have been rather lose a ring but the finger? Correct? Correct. I mean, you 30 to 40 minutes of having no circulation to your finger that could have done damage that could have done nerve damage that could have done multiple. And then, you know, again, as you're talking at, you know, I've I've now that I'm thinking about it, a lot of the fairs, especially, you know, going it's, you know, we're experiencing summer, there's little tents that I always that I've seen it quite a few of them where they have, you know, these two people sitting in there's like a little Medical Center, you know.
Sarah Davis 17:09
Yeah, so I mean those people are probably CPR certified, they have, you know, band aids for kids, they have some ace bandages in case, but they can triage the situation, right, you can come to them with a cut bleeding and they wash it off, they're like, Go, it's just a surface thing, you know, go back out and have fun, right? They can triage things. And that's a key, that's a key to Planning Fairs, do some fairs, I should say, do really well with that, right? They have a really good plan for medical care, because especially if there's going to be animals, different things, you never know what an animal is going to do to somebody. Right, right. I lived in the country, I've seen cows kill people, so you never know. So they always have a plan for that. However, a lot of fairs don't have a good evacuation plan. Because they try to limit the entrances and exits, so that they can limit the amount of people it's how they make money. Right, right. And so there's limited and entries and exits for people to leave should something happen. And a lot of fears and counter weather, right. So if there's a lightning storm or a tornado coming in, and everybody needs to get to their cars, it can be a bottleneck. And that causes people to be injured in the bottleneck. But it also might not allow them to get home in a quick enough manner.
Leighann Lovely 18:30
Well, and we all heard, what year was it the story of the doors that opened the back backwards. This was many, many years ago, but it was a concert hall of some kind. Oh, I remember that, you know, shooting happened inside and when everybody tried to flee the doors opened
Sarah Davis 18:47
doors backwards, back, right? Instead of out correct. The legal in every state, but
Leighann Lovely 18:54
right getting into that, right. And I think that actually, I mean, this was many, many, many, many years ago, like really set the bar of if somebody walks into your facility, and those doors are opening the wrong way. Like you're immediately shut down like you cannot like that is just the stupidest thing in the world. And that was one of the I mean, that hit like it. I don't want to say international that hit National, absolute national news, because I think like hundreds of people died from trampling on each other. Trying to get out. So yeah,
Sarah Davis 19:32
because you know, the first few people couldn't open the doors at all. So where's everybody else gonna go? They're gonna start pushing. Correct. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely 19:39
And just continue to push and push.
Sarah Davis 19:43
And there are still some cities that filat I don't know what the term is, but like grandfathered in, so that you don't know they're older buildings, they, they don't have to be brought up to code because they're historic or whatever. And so there are Some places like that, that aren't allowed to be event venues anymore, even use them for other things. But they can't be event venues because of those concerns,
Leighann Lovely 20:11
right. Which is, I mean, that seems like it's a no brainer. If you can't have certain can't have a certain amount of people in one area, if all of a sudden, there's going to be a mob trying to get out. And what I have seen it a lot of these larger venues or events is that they, you know, is having some of these entrances, they don't have real they don't have real walls per se, to get in. It's more like fences that can easily call down. Like if, if everybody needs to get out there fences that can actually be dropped so that people can come that a large amount of people can get out. And I've seen more and more places doing that. Because again, if people need to flee, the last thing that you want is people trampling each other killing each other while they're fleeing. I mean,
Sarah Davis 21:07
exactly. And some of those simple things can be pre planned for, right. In we we go through that, like, with the trampling thing, a lot of a lot of places, like you said, are coming up with the fence thing, the different options for easy exit, exits, and things like that. But it's honestly things that don't happen often that people don't plan for, and they can turn into a problem. I'm going to use a quick example here that just happened is about six months ago, there was a tornado here, around me and there was an indoor event, it was an indoor concert, a smaller venue, you know, kind of a local band type thing. Well, the people that had planned the event were on site, right? They just had like ticket takers and that sort of thing. And so a tornado watch warning, all of it came for a few hours beforehand, they're like this is happening. You need to you know, evacuate, everybody needs to record, no one had the authority to cancel the event. So the roof gets torn off people perished that day, all because no one had the authority to cancel the event. And that's one of the keys to some of these events is is canceling when you're supposed to and not putting your life and other people's life in danger. So weather is a big factor.
Leighann Lovely 22:33
Yeah. And that's scary. And you're right, if nobody at the actual event has the ability to cancel, everybody's looking at each other going well, what are we supposed to do? And that's interesting, I think you and I had talked about that when we initially met because I was at an event in a fully glass. It was you know, it was indoors, and all the walls were all glass. And as the tornado warnings, I remember the person who was running the event goes, guys, we have to get up. We're all going into the bathroom. And we're all like what, okay, and we ended up at and it was good. I mean, it was great, because there was no question it was with, you know, it was a chamber event that I was at, and it was just, everybody stand up. We're we're evacuating this room and is not safe. There wasn't a matter of whose authority we just all went, Okay. I mean, I took my lunch, right? And we all pout, we know, although there was not very many men, it was it was quite a few more women. We all went into the bathroom. Eventually the men were like, well, can we come in there? And we're like, yeah, why not? And we continued to have our meetings standing up all in the women's bathroom, because it lasted a long time. And it was like, well, we might as well. At least talk while we're on here. Correct. You know, and so I mean, and it got hot, and it and we ended up making a joke of it. And it, it was great. It was fine. And when it was over, we all went back into the other room finished our meeting, and it was something to talk about.
Sarah Davis 24:05
But I want to take a group photo in there. We did. We did. Okay, wonderful. Yeah, so make me feel better. And
Leighann Lovely 24:11
it was posted on LinkedIn, you know, wonderful meeting in the women's bathroom and blah, blah, blah. And you know, and it and it ended up being, you know, a talking point. But the point being is that, you know, somebody you know, was monitoring the weather events process, correct and eventually got to the point where it was like, Guys, this is not a safe room. We're, you know, on two full walls were was all glass. It's like this is not the room on a lovely sunny day.
Sarah Davis 24:40
It's the best room ever on a stormy tornado day. Not necessarily the best.
Leighann Lovely 24:46
Yeah, I don't want to go home with glass punctures throughout my entire body or not go home at all. Exactly. So. So give me an example of a how you make sure that event planners can be better prepared. But in situations that have, you know, gone wrong, because they didn't have somebody like you, and I know that you've kind of given me some examples, but, you know, even just like the simple, almost almost funny stuff that, that you've come across, where people are just like, oh, well, I didn't know that. I mean, just the.
Sarah Davis 25:19
Sure, sure. So first and foremost, is all about having conversations about, you know, where their event is, how many people they're expecting, what their setup is, we talk about all that stuff up front, so we can get an idea of what they're going to be going through. And, you know, we don't plan for hurricanes in North Dakota, right, we're not gonna plan for you know, I don't know, earthquakes in Michigan, I mean, maybe because there's technically a fault line somewhere there. But we're not going to write because on the average, that's not gonna happen. So we talked about the all hazards that impact there, but people do like there are funny things that happen that people just don't think about. And I'll give an example. This is 10 years ago, I was at an event and I show up, and there's 10, like those 12 by 12, white, like pop up tents that people put tables under. And they're all in a row. And people are going to each one of them picking up something and put it in a bag like it's a, you know, an event where you're filling up a bag with tchotchkes, and we were there for probably 30 minutes when all of a sudden this bright sunny day, had a gust of wind that blew every single tent. Nobody got hurt, but four cars had smashed windows. And I seriously to this day, I have a picture of it somewhere. I still laugh every time I see it, because literally they all just went because whoever set them up was like, oh, it's bright and sunny, and there's no wind, I don't have to attach them to the ground. Right?
Leighann Lovely 27:02
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, if our audience could see as I'm putting my hand in my, or my head in my hand going, oh my god, you gotta be kidding me. Like, come on.
Sarah Davis 27:13
Those are the little things that we can remind people of in their plan. You're like, Okay, you're gonna have you know, 10 tents at your event, make sure that they are secured. Right. As you know, you're going to have a bouncy house, can we not be in the news with the kid flying out of the bouncy house because it got lifted up by the wind, right? And we laugh about it when kids aren't injured. Sometimes the kid could fall out. If the kid stays. It's funny. But if the kid pops out that it can it can be not funny. Right? And so, yeah, there's a lot of certain things like that, that happen that do tend to make people think, well, nobody got hurt, and how often can that happen? So why should I plan for it? And that's the wrong mentality to have, with those 10 tents when they were thrown into cars. All that would have taken was one kid to be in the wrong spot, right? And instead of that car window, it was a kid's head, right? And those are the reasons we plan for these things. And those are the reasons we get cool photographs in bathrooms, right? When people plan accordingly because everybody's safe. That's why I have a cool picture of tents, literally impaling cars, because no one was in was injured. And that's what I want.
Leighann Lovely 28:35
And it's funny that you bring that up, because every time you know, I every once in a while we'll go to like, you know, like a street days type thing. And I you know, I have some crafts that I sell. And every time I get irritated that I have to bring those sandbags to secure my tent, and I'm like, it's a beautiful day. Why do I have to do this, but they will make you take your tent down? If you have not brought the sandbags to secure your tent, and I'm always like, but
Sarah Davis 29:01
they've seen something like what I just described happen,
Leighann Lovely 29:04
correct? Somebody Yep, it's 10 flew into and you're, you know, you're on the street windows all behind you have all the businesses, I'm sure that they've seen it go through somebody's business window, or maybe worse, hurt somebody.
Sarah Davis 29:18
And possibly they're liable and not you which makes them have you adhere to those rules, right? Which, which is the the other thing, right, like, you know, once you sign on the dotted line when you're renting out a location or using a park or whatever that liability is now on you. And so when you go to those vendor fairs, the vendor organizer is the one that's liable for everything that happens right? So I mean, unless you purposely like hit somebody on something but if if an accident happens they're liable for it and an accident would be your tent moving
Leighann Lovely 29:53
right. So very interesting. I that is something again, that it's it's just not I thought about, like, it's just not one of those things that when you're going through all of the details, you're not thinking, Oh, this could happen, or oh, this could happen. Now, here's here's an interesting one. And this is not an event, but I witnessed something wildly interesting. Because again, I'm a very pragmatic, practical person. We go to the dog park, and we bring our five year old daughter, okay? Yes. Now, when we walk in there, we explained to our daughter, if dogs are growling, if they're barking, or if a whole clump of them get close to you, you slowly walk away and you get as close to mommy and daddy as possible. In some cases, we pick her up, because Sure, there isn't. Yeah, there. And we explain this to her as we walk in, right, we're, we're mitigating the risk factor of the of the fact that we are bringing our five year old daughter into a risky situation. But knowing that the majority of dogs that go to the dog park are dog friendly, and typically do not go after each other. So the other day, we're in there, and his dog was really excited to see our daughter and ran up and just stopped too, too short. And my daughter just went, boom, right on her butt. And, and the owner. The owner comes running over, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. And my daughter's crying now because she was hurt. Because she was started. She started. We picked her up and I said it's not a problem. We brought our five year old to a dog park where we know some dogs get excited. It's not your it's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. Now. We witnessed another situation where a woman wearing shorts that basically were underwear got scratched by another woman's dock. And she went ballistic. Completely ballistic on this other woman How dare your dog scratch me How dare your dogs? And I'm like,
Sarah Davis 32:06
You came to the park in booty shorts and expected what that you weren't gonna get scratched your own dog could have scratched you.
Leighann Lovely 32:16
Right? Right. You're you're wearing like you're not you have no protection on knowing that there's going to be dogs jumping on each other, jumping on your dog jumping all around. I just witnessed my daughter getting knocked over by a dog that was not non threatening. This dog was not threatening by any means just excited, too excited, just really excited and sweetest pie dog like, you know, we were petting her and my daughter after the little mini trauma that she experienced was petting and giggling with it. But this woman was I mean, just out of her mind angry that How dare her dog scratch her by accident, by the way. I mean, this was a jump up. And so I on a regular basis. Having a kid, I'm constantly looking around to mitigate, you know, the risk around her. But even percent, even being somebody who is constantly, you know, looking at risk versus reward. You know, in my own life, there is no way that I could possibly put all of the things that you're talking about into? I guess, you know, it's not my area of expertise. So right for me, it doesn't make any sense why somebody would that doesn't have experience wouldn't reach out to somebody like you, at least for like, Hey, Sarah, do you have a checklist? Do you have? I mean, do you go through? So do you tear your program on how engaged you you are going to be with people?
Sarah Davis 34:01
We do? So are what you're talking about, right? There would be our like, kind of first or, you know, whatever tier, we have a one hour spot you can you can get on a call with us. And literally just ask us any questions about safety that we can get done in an hour. You can we can provide you with a list of things that you should be, you know the basics of anywhere in the country that you should be looking at around safety, well, then you can get on this call and ask us whatever you want to ask us in any way shape or form. And then we go up from there because some people want an actual written out plan where they can go to a tab, you know, thing a happened, what do I do? Right? And and that's wonderful. A lot of people do want that. And that's something that we can provide an update, you know, yearly at their event or quarterly whenever they're about that happens. And then finally, our third option is where we actually come we do all those two first things, but then we're on site for your event to ensure that if something pops up that, you know, it's not in the book, or you don't want to handle it, and it is in the book or whatever, we will handle it on site.
Leighann Lovely 35:22
Awesome. And what is your background? Where did you know you run this business with? Your,
Sarah Davis 35:28
my partner, your partner life and my partner in the business?
Leighann Lovely 35:31
Okay, and what how did you you would send that you started this business because of you were at a, you know, event, but what got you like started? Obviously, you had a background had a background in this, right? Sure.
Sarah Davis 35:50
Yeah, a little bit, my partner has a lot more, my experience is more on the event side of things. And his is more on the emergency management side. So my background, my degree is in psychology, so I understand humans, I have a lot of experience in event planning around nonprofits, and then a lot of the nonprofit's I've worked with provided emergency services during emergency situations. And then more recently, I do have experience with emergency management with the Red Cross. And then my partner, his degree is in emergency management with innumerable experiences, and that roll off. So yeah,
Leighann Lovely 36:32
so you guys are right, exactly where you need to be.
Sarah Davis 36:36
I like to think so. Yeah, we have all the experience that we need. And we're, you know, we're willing to give that to people, we want it to help people make their events safer. We're not trying to get keep the information by any shape of the imagination. And like I said, you know, we we do this hands on, there are other companies out there that I, I will refer people to also, to get checklists, and some training, some online things, there are great companies out there. But if you're looking for that one on one approach, where you can actually ask questions, and be engaged in the process, and learn, then then that's where you, that's where you come to us, we make sure that we walk you through the process, and you will feel comfortable at your event and safe at your event.
Leighann Lovely 37:24
What do you think is the number one thing that you have come across when it comes to, you know, the threat?
Sarah Davis 37:35
So I'm gonna say it's two different things. So an actual threat, that's an all hazards concept that people don't think about is the weather, they don't really think about how that impacts an event. And I don't even mean necessarily injuries or your your actual attendees. But if you don't plan ahead, you might lose. You know, items, like when you're unloading things from a car, or you're trying to bring in your catering, right, things like that can all be impacted by the weather if you don't have a plan for it. Right. And I think whether is the lease plan for item, that, because people just think, Oh, well, if it's a tornado, I'll get in the bathroom, if you know, if it's a rainstorm, I'll run real quick, right? But you know, they don't really think about the impact of it. And that's something that we can we can all learn more on. And we can all plan a little bit better for. But I think the biggest barrier that people have, when planning is honestly the thought in their head. And I mentioned this maybe once or twice so far is people think it'll never happen to them. Yeah, or, more often I hear it well. I mean, the fire department signed off on capacity, and I'll just call 911. That's all we got to do, right? No, no, that is not all you have to do. And, and that, to me is kind of scary. When people are in that mentality. It's kind of like telling somebody they need therapy. You can't just go look somebody in the head and be like, you need therapy. They're gonna clam up and be like, No, right? That's not me. I'm, I'm perfectly fine, right? We all need therapy. We all need therapy, right? But you can't just go flick somebody in the head and be like, you need therapy. Right? Right. So it's the same thing with talking about safety at events. You can't just walk up to an event and be like, Wow, do you realize the unsafe things I see here, right. And so you have to go about it a little bit differently and educate through you know, social media, some different ways to get people to understand that they need the services and word of mouth. Word of mouth is a big key,
Leighann Lovely 39:53
right? Yeah. We are on a default setting of it'll never happen. And to me, you know, and a lot of events, you know, will say, we are having this event rain or you know, rain or shine, it's it's going to happen. And then, you know, you get out there and you're like, Wow, this is really not just rain, this is, you know, sideways, sideways, gusts of sheets of water that are hitting and pelting me in the face. And you realize maybe this wasn't such a good idea.
Sarah Davis 40:27
Right? Right. And in, those are the things that, you know, it'll make you second guessed going next year, versus if they would just say, you know, hey, our event is getting moved by a week, or we're canceling it, because of the weather because we want you to be safe, dry and happy. I'll go back the next year. If I go to an event where I'm a drowned rat, by the end, I'm gonna second guess, going next year, right?
Leighann Lovely 40:53
second guessing whether or not I want to sign up because it cost me you know, 100 bucks to go and I lose that money if I don't because it's rain or shine, shine or sun or water. I don't. Right. Right. Right. And that's it. Yeah. And in, in the state of well, and here's the other thing, people think, well, you know, I can call emergency services, but we here just recently experienced, you know, a storm in which calling Emergency Services wasn't an option, because we had trees down, like on every block. Sure. And they they were being called by everybody. Which means that there wasn't enough emergency services. I mean, it shut off. It took a month for them to clean up. It took two days for them to get the power back on this little tap was this last year? Yeah, yeah, I think it was last year, I was sitting in a pocket I live in in Franklin, Wisconsin, I was sitting in a pocket where we had no power for two days.
Sarah Davis 42:08
So, you know, if you're calling 911, every three hours wasn't gonna help? No. I mean, no, they can only have so many people working on electricity at any given point, correct?
Leighann Lovely 42:22
No, we were we were lucky that people were prepared. You know, and we didn't have you know, around. And I'm not talking about an event, I'm just talking about a huge individual, you know, individual huge. But if you were at an event during that time period, there was so much chaos happening all over the place that emergency services would not have helped at that point, because
Sarah Davis 42:49
you were not the priority. And event was not the priority when there were individuals, old young, whatever, there's, there's a triage impact of what happens when people call 911, right? People think it's when when large scale events happen, people think well, I called first they're gonna come to me first live in some fantasy world, go ahead. Well, you don't have power for two days, you could live in your fantasy, right? It doesn't work like that. They're going to help the older people, they're going to help the younger people, they're going to help the people that need to get out of their home, not the people that can stay there for a little bit without electricity. And, yeah, and also, I mean, we lived for centuries, upon centuries without electricity and running water in the house. You know, we need to start thinking about planning ahead and making sure that you have a few key elements in your house. So include, you don't have to cook. You know what I mean? Some food, well, sometimes gas doesn't get cut off. But sometimes that can throw a wrench in it too, when there's trees down and things like that. It can impact gas lines, and but you know, have water have, you know, bottles of water someplace that are easily accessible and things like that it can really make a difference.
Leighann Lovely 44:09
Yeah. Yep. Well, Sarah, this has been an awesome conversation. We're coming to time. So I want to ask you the question of the season. What do you Yes? I'm asking everybody this this season. What do you think will go down in the history book books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Sarah Davis 44:31
Okay. So I'm assuming we're beyond just talking about COVID and how we react to pandemics because I think the world learned a few lessons on that. But I'm going to say something that will go down in the history books from what we experienced over the last three years is that we we don't You need to have eight to five jobs to be successful in the world. And, and by that, I mean, so many people switched their their thought processes over, over COVID. But we started working remotely hybrid from home at night when the kids were asleep because we had to do school with them during the day. You know, a variety of things happened. And while a lot of people are trying to get us to go back into the, the office atmosphere, I don't think it's ever going to happen thoroughly. Again, I think we learned our lesson, that productivity does not mean clapping. And from eight to five.
Leighann Lovely 45:47
Awesome. Awesome. Excellent. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Sarah Davis 45:54
Sure. So event safety plus.com. If you want to get to me directly, it's event safety plus.com backslash Sarah Sarah with an H. And that'll get you to all of my links. And then obviously, the website there, you can sign up for our services and send out that first consultation call.
Leighann Lovely 46:14
Excellent. Sarah, this has been such an amazing eye opening and education, educational conversation. I really appreciate you coming on and joining me today.
Sarah Davis 46:23
It was fun. And you were right. The Time flew. So I love it. Thank you. Yeah, you have a
Leighann Lovely 46:30
great day. You too. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPY
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, event, plan, happen, talking, event planners, exits, tornado, year, experience, kid, emergency services, dog, call, responsibility, coming, tables, situation, started, cars
Wednesday Aug 16, 2023
Wednesday Aug 16, 2023
Andrea Herran is an amazing business owner, that works to simply HR for her clients so they can say focused on what matters to them, their business. Join us as we talk about how much human resources has changed and continues to evolve as a profession.
Contact Andrea
LinkedIn – linkedin.com/in/focushr
Website – http://FocusHR.biz
Phone number – (773)531-8199
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann lovely. Let's get this conversation started.
Andrea Herran is the Founder and CEO of Focus HR. Andrea developed a passion for Human Resources and Leadership from the beginning of her career. One thing she noticed in her corporate leadership roles was that she could really you see the good, bad and the ugly from her managers and employees. Overcoming the bad and ugly was a challenge she would take on, and discovering how to take the good to great, made a lasting impression on Andrea. She brings those insights to her audiences, her clients, and her own team each day.
Andrea has over 30 years of professional HR experience. Early in her career she was fortunate enough to work both inside and outside the USA, in four different countries the US, Argentina, Mexico and South Africa. She enjoys sharing her business strategies, adventures, and experiences with audiences around the globe.
Andrea is a sought-after international speaker, top HR, Leadership and growth consultant, and exceptional author. After 30 years of helping businesses grow, and expand their teams successfully, she is now renowned for her ability to bring out the excellence in every team. With degrees in business and psychology and vast experience working with companies with less than 100 employees. Andrea has worked with teams in the United States, Mexico, and South America and much more.
“Your company will grow as fast as you and your people do. To create a competitive advantage, invest in your people now” says Herran.
She and her team help companies build a culture-driven company that the best and brightest want to be a part of and stay in forever.
Andrea’s forthcoming book is called The People Success Code for CEO’s: 9 Secrets to rapid growth, a winning culture, and uncomplicating the people side of business.
Welcome Andrea, I am so excited to have you join me today.
Andrea Herran 03:21
Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited. Yeah.
Leighann Lovely 03:23
Why don't you start off by telling everyone a little bit about yourself and your background?
Andrea Herran 03:29
Oh, sure. I'm Andrea Herran owner of Focus HR, I have been doing human resources now for 35 years.
Leighann Lovely 03:42
You don't look old enough to have been doing human resources for 35 years. By the way.
Andrea Herran 03:47
Thank you so much. I love that. I'm a mom of two teenage boys. So that keeps me young. I started focus HR about 17 years ago. And for work life balance. That was my main thing you know, and I wanted to keep doing human resources. And as I've grown and added to my team, for me, it's been really important that my team also has that work life balance, and it's worked out. Great. So as you can tell, I do run my company based on my values and so forth. I also recommend that to all businesses to do that because it makes life a lot easier. And like I said entrepreneur for 17 years, I am the daughter of an entrepreneur, I am the granddaughter of entrepreneurs and the great great granddaughter of an entrepreneur, so it's actually my great great grandmother that gives up the entrepreneurial spirit in my family. Oh wow.
Leighann Lovely 04:53
very forward thinking. Woman in the family.
Andrea Herran 04:58
Yes, especially in the 1920s and 30s right. Yeah,
Leighann Lovely 05:02
yes, that's and that's when you say great, great, great, great grandmother? Or great, great, great, great
Andrea Herran 05:09
grandmother. Okay. Well,
Leighann Lovely 05:11
yeah, definitely a very forward thinking woman at that time, because that typically wasn't something that a woman would have done at that at that time. So that's, that's absolutely awesome. So your, your business focus HR is, you and I have spoken about it before it focuses really you have kind of three main buckets of things that you do. Is that correct?
Andrea Herran 05:32
Yep, three buckets. Typically, for businesses that have less than 100 employees. One is like a helpline, you know, for the folks that just want to, like, ask questions, get answers, you know, oh, my god, I can't believe Fred did this. You know, Wilma did that, you know, how do I handle it? I heard something on the news. You know, I heard about a new law or regulation being passed, what does this mean for me to projects, you know, I need a handbook, I need a performance management system, I need an audit, I don't even know if what I'm doing is the right thing or not, you know, it's, I actually get that quite a bit. And then lastly, is, you know, what, just let us take care of HR for you, we will handle it, we will work with you, you know, on strategy, and so forth. But we will implement, we will be the contact for your managers for your employees. So they always have someone to reach out to and we will handle it all. And so in this is how I came up with the name, focus, HR, let us focus on the HR so you can focus on the business.
Leighann Lovely 06:41
And that's awesome. Because there are so many, you know, and again, not to self promote myself, but it is it's the reason I came up with my business, because business owners don't go into business to be HR professionals, right? And yeah, and they don't have, they don't have the knowledge to know how. There's, there's a lot of complex things in HR. So outsource it, to make it not complex, and to make sure that you're getting everything done that needs to be done, right. crossing your T's dotting your eyes, so that you're not missing anything so that even and people don't realize this after you've hired on your first employee, you need to have an employee handbook. Yep. And a lot of people go why I have one employee. Yeah, you have one employee.
Andrea Herran 07:35
Exactly. And you know, in our tagline is uncomplicated, the people side of business. And then you talk about that one employee, people, I only have one employee, what they forget is that once you get that first employee, you know, it's not too far. Typically, it's not too much longer, that you get a second or a third or a fourth. And we actually, when people know they're about to hire, that's when I actually like to do the handbook. Because we've talked about all now like working on handbooks, that's so much, you know, because I think they need this big document. But it's the conversations that we have in order to make it work for that. You know, what do you want to do about holidays? How do you want to handle vacation time off PTO, and 401k benefits? You know, we go through all of this stuff, you know, I'm not going to go into all the details, because nobody likes that.
Leighann Lovely 08:35
I do actually. Which makes me yes,
Andrea Herran 08:38
There's a few of us that gets a little crazy about that. But by having that conversation before you didn't hire your first employee. Because inevitably, what happens is when you're recruiting and you're interviewing people, guess what they're going to ask you, right? What's your time off policy? Which holidays? Do you observe? Are they paid? Are they unpaid? already? You know, how? What about benefits? Instead of saying, Mm hmm. Right? You've actually thought about it. And by having thought about it ahead of time and having a policy that's at least a baseline people automatically see you as more established, more professional and more put together. But in reality could be totally different.
Leighann Lovely 09:24
They won't know that you're completely a mess. So and again, a lot of you know especially first time entrepreneurs, me, first time entrepreneur really, you know, get those are things that you don't you don't realize, you know, right now you're just winging it. You're trying to just make everything work. You're just trying to put all the pieces together frantically trying to, you know, get everything going. And so working with somebody like you that goes, Wait a second, you're going to hire somebody, well, they're going to ask these questions. They're going to want to know they're going to want to come into they don't Want to work for a business, that's unless it's a good friend that you're hiring there, they want to work for a business that they're going to be confident is going to be there in a year, they're going to be confident is going to be able to pay the bills, they're going to be confident that knows their vacation policy, are they going to be paid for the Fourth of July? Are they going to be paid for Christmas? Those are things that a lot of entrepreneurs that when they're in the, you know, the, just the, I'm trying to come up with in
Andrea Herran 10:30
the month of it, the muck of it, that red, it doesn't come into,
Leighann Lovely 10:33
right, because they're not being paid for holidays, they're not getting, you know, vague, they. So working with somebody like you to, you know, basically help get them focused on those important things is is extremely important to a successful hire. Now, absolutely.
Andrea Herran 10:56
And I've been down the road myself, because I started by myself wearing all the hats doing everything, you know, now I'm grateful I've got a team of seven that support me. And so I understand that the decisions the you know, but can I afford it? Or what does that mean? And how do I do that? And something that people forget, you know, sometimes as entrepreneurs is like, Oh, can we try making so much and then I can hire somebody? Yes, that's great. But what they also forget, is what it means to them to let go while they let go, how they handle that off, off to somebody else. And how they make sure that they haven't totally lost control. But actually find that that psychological change for many is harder,
Leighann Lovely 11:52
right?
Andrea Herran 11:53
Oh, process procedures, I get that, you know, step we've got to do this, we got to do that, you know, it's something definitive, it's black and white, right? The letting go of what I used to do and give it to somebody else to do. How do I deal with that? And we will talk through that we will go through that. What do you need to know, you know, what would make you feel comfortable besides an update every five minutes,
Leighann Lovely 12:15
right? Oh, I'm already fearing that I haven't even gotten close to a point in which I'm going to be able to hire somebody and I'm always I'm already going, Oh, my God, well, nobody else can do it. Like I can do it. Not that I'm even that amaze. I'm not I'm not putting myself on a pedestal. I'm just like, Well, how do I train somebody to do this? Oh, gosh, Leanne, get off your pedestal get off your you know, nobody is everybody's replaceable. I remind myself that on a regular basis, regularly that nothing that I do cannot be done by somebody else. But a lot of us get to a point where it's like, it's just easier to do it myself than it is to try to. And that's such the such a backwards thinking. So backwards. Because I'm, I'm, I'm more than happy to say hey, somebody come in and do my book, somebody come and do my, because I don't know how to do it. Which means that there are multiple other things that I could just simply say, hey, come in and do this. Because every there are multiple people out there that are better, or, you know, much better at all of the different tasks that I do. I just happened to you know, yeah. So very good point. Very good point.
Andrea Herran 13:33
Okay, so it's figuring out how to train them, you know, and onboarding, you know, and what that does is that goes back to onboarding. And people think of onboarding as this like this one time, one hour event when somebody starts, and it's like, well, yeah, if you just count paperwork, but paperwork is you got to get it done. Because the paperwork mostly is needed to get them paid, right? You know, it's getting them in the payroll system, and all that kind of stuff. But onboarding, the first few weeks of somebody's employment, will set the pace for how long they stay. So the more interactive, the more supports that you're showing, the more training that you're doing, you're ensuring that they're catching on, you know, you do that heavily in the first couple of weeks, they will stay with you a long time. If you just throw them into the deep end and say, Hey, good luck. I'll see you later. Guess what, right? They're not going to be around right? for that long. So, is it more complicated, more time consuming more of a, you know, some people may think of it as a headache to spend all this time training with somebody up front. But you have to realize that what you spend now is often dividends in the long term, right.
Leighann Lovely 14:57
And that is that is it is hard for a lot of people, a lot of businesses to wrap their head around that. I have seen it because I come from the recruiting world that businesses are I just don't have time to train somebody right now we just don't have time to train somebody right now. Okay, you don't have time to train somebody, where are you going to be in six months, you're going to be further behind than you are right now. But if you were to put in the tube for six weeks now, where are you going to be in six months from now. And they just don't think of, it's the immediate, I need this done immediately, I need this done immediately, okay. But in six months from now, you're still going to be living in the I need this done immediately, I need this done immediately, you're still going to be constantly behind and behind and behind him behind. You need to think of big picture. And a lot of companies really struggle with that big picture of let me get somebody in, we're going to maybe fall behind. But by the time we get this person up and running and trained, we're going to catch up. And then we're going to actually be on time, we're going to actually be able to keep up with the work and not constantly be running two steps behind all the work that's building up. And I've I've struggled with that, as a recruiter constantly, where they're just like, Yeah, we're gonna hold off right now I'm pulling the trigger, because we don't have time. Okay, are you gonna have time in two weeks? Nope. Three weeks? Nope. a month?
Andrea Herran 16:20
Nope. Because you're always going to have less time. Correct? Because they're doing it all themselves.
Leighann Lovely 16:25
Right. And that's, it's such a frustration for people who are trying to work with companies that are always and you cannot talk sense into somebody who is like always in that reactive mode, versus being in that proactive mode? Because that reactive is that that fear mode? And it's it's, yeah, anyways, I digress.
Andrea Herran 16:54
No, it's and it's true. And the thing is, too, is I look back when I first started in human resources, so many years ago, everything had to be done, you know, in person live next to them, because computers were just starting, right? You know, right. I mean, I remember writing training sessions with the overhead projectors, and taking off the acetate Do you notice right topics. And now with all the tools that are available, and a lot of them are free, so it's not a cost issue. But you can start creating videos, especially the things that, you know, you're going to be repeating all the time, and I just did this for my own business. You know, nobody owes more than five minutes, used Canva, which you can use for free, you know, do a slideshow. And it's me explaining, you know, what the company is all about, I've got another one telling them about, you know, who our ideal client is, and the kind of work that we do. And another one about mindset. Because I've noticed, took me a while to figure this out. But I figured it out eventually, that I had to deal with, you know, people that I hired, were coming from being in house HR, and now being consultants in that mind shift, mindset shift that they needed to be a consultant. So I spend time talking about that, you know, and I found this so much easier. You know, because I could do it. For the videos, when I had time. Some of them were recorded late at night, some of them early in the morning. And then they could review it when they were ready to look at it. You know, and it's like, Okay, once you finish looking at all the videos, let me know, and then we will hop on a call to discuss. And it is made onboarding new team members. So much easier, right? With, you know, and they always have access to it. So once they start working with a client, they said, Yeah, I had to go back and then I'm like, okay, that's what I got to remember. You know, and
Leighann Lovely 19:01
right. Well, yeah, the world of technology allows us to, and as long as those videos are not because I've been at some companies where it's like, okay, you're gonna watch this eight hours of these videos. And you're like, wow, my first you know, my first day my first and you're like, eight hours of an I will tell you within the first hour, your brain is checked out. It's boom, you're you're no longer taking no, right. But those are those are absolutely great. And for, you know, in your world, if you're, you know, working with a business and they're like, Hey, we just need a quick like, how do we do this paperwork properly? How do we do this properly? That's a great tool to be able to offer a client where especially forms you know, your I nine forms, for instance, those are, you know, forms that are like, you come in and get audited by the government and they're like Nope, nope, sorry, there is not a dash in the right place, or there's not a number there's or it's missing, or it's not in the right format or whatever. You're like, okay, yeah. Right, you have to have those exact, like, here's a quick two minute, here's the right form, you know, way to do it, here's the wrong way to do it, and still have obviously, you know, be audited by you on a regular basis as a service and that kind of thing. But those are, you know, those are great ways to do that kind of stuff. So,
Andrea Herran 20:31
I do, like, you know, one of the things that we also do, one of the projects is we'll help people move to a new payroll system. Usually, they're going from something really basic, just that they're more robust. And they'll be like, Well, how do I do this? So instead of trying to write an email, or call them and say, okay, click here, do you see that button? Okay, no, no, it's the one next to that. I can record a quick screenshot video. Send it to them, they have access to it today, tomorrow, a week from now a month from now, whatever. And I always get back the same response. So like, Thank you, this is so much easier, I can see exactly what you're looking at what you're pointing at. And when people have looked at a multiple times, because especially if it's things they don't do often, right? You know, yes, I can fill out an i nine form blindfolded. Because I've done it way too many times. Right, we audit on it. But I get it your business, you may do it once every six months. Right. You know, so yeah, if I create a video for you, I want you to have access to it. And you can always see how to do it and refer back to it.
Leighann Lovely 21:41
Right. Yeah, I used to think you know, that I used to have people filling out those. I used to fill up three i nines a day, sometimes more in the staffing world, it was like, it was ridiculous. So but a business again, some businesses hire one person a year. Some more No, nowadays. Yeah. So. So obviously, as an HR professional, for as long as you've been, you've seen the good, the bad, the ugly, you you bring that up in your you know, in your bio. So do you think that, you know, things are getting better? Do you think that we are headed towards things getting better in in the way that that HR handles things? When it comes? I guess? I guess that's a tough question. Because we can't see the future, we can't predict the future. But with everything that has happened, obviously, with cultural shifts with people being more, you know, companies trying to be more sensitive, more inclusive. Where do you see this, you know, going over the next couple of years.
Andrea Herran 22:56
You know, what it's, I'm going to really simplify it. Because there's, there's so many nuances to it, right? But what's going to happen is, first of all human resources, as a profession, is really starting to come into its own now. Yes, companies have had you human resource companies for you know, 50 years or whatever. But there wasn't always a seat at the table. You know, and it was getting a little bit more attention, the pandemic, you know, for this good, bad and ugly, really brought, people started to realize the value of HR, to the company and to its employees, and what their employees mean, and how to take care of their employees. Even if they're a curmudgeon, that's like, you know, especially thankful they have a job kind of person. They still needed to do it the right way, and they still needed to make sure that their employees were taken care of. So HR came to the forefront, because we understood what the laws were saying, we were understanding what the programs were saying. We understood each state handled it differently. You know, so it's, we're at the table, and is, as long as the rest of the C suite, executive leadership owner, depending on the size of the the organization listens to HR and values, HR and HR brings value. You know, you can't, nobody can have a seat at the table if they don't bring value. Right. And they bring that value, you will see it change. You know, each generation of employees, you know, because somebody had asked me it's like, oh, yeah, but Gen Z has got to be the worst. You know, for example, like they said, What about the boomers? They said that about Gen X, they said that about the millennials. Now it's Gen Z's turn, every new generation is considered the worst. Right? Or entitled, or too demanding, you know, and it's just because they are different. And we also need to realize that as a generation, are the one that brought into this world, the following generations, right, going to complain about them, you kind of got to look at yourself.
Leighann Lovely 25:28
We created them. Exactly. Go look in the mirror.
Andrea Herran 25:34
Yeah, you know, as a Gen X, raising Gen Z. You know, when people talk about Gen Z, I'm like, Well, yeah, because I'm raising them, like I was raised, and my generation was raised, because Gen Z is closest to Gen X. Right? As far as the way they look at things. I mean, there's obvious differences, but they're the closest, and Gen Z is is no BS kind of policy, you know, I think is refreshing, you know, I, I,
Leighann Lovely 26:02
when it comes to the Generate, I think this new generation coming into the workforce is amazing. Yeah, I think they are absolutely. Like, they just want to know, like their spot. Do they have a spot at the company? And will you teach me? Will you allow me to grow? Will you train me? Will you give me what I need to grow? Because that's the expectation they have. They don't want to just be a flash in the pan. And I think that that's, I think that's amazing. Because if you look at millennials, they were just like, this powerhouse coming in being like, Hey, I'm here, now. Promote me. And it was like, what? And again, I'm,
Andrea Herran 26:49
that's the everybody gets a trophy generation. Correct. Everybody gets a trophy.
Leighann Lovely 26:54
And I'm part of that I'm at the very, very tail end of that generation. I participate in the, you know, in soccer, I got a trophy. So you know, here I am, give me a trophy. I participated. But now we have a generation of, you know, stop, you know, thinking that you're gonna get a pat on the back for showing up. And they're like, oh, okay, so I have to put forth the effort. So they're putting forth the effort. But they're asking for it. They're asking, I would like to get training. I would like to be a part of this community. I would like to, and everybody's complaining, oh, man, they need hand holding. No, they don't. They don't need to handle they need to be tained.
27:36
They want in the deep end. Correct. That's what people that's what it's supposed
Leighann Lovely 27:40
to happen. They're supposed to, they're not supposed to act like a millennial and be like, Yep, I'm here. Don't bother me. Just give me the promotion, and the money. And I'm out the door at five o'clock. I don't want that employee. I want the one who comes in and goes, I want to learn, I want to grow, but you have to show me how to do it. And why are people complaining about this?
Andrea Herran 28:05
Because previous generations would just suffer in silence. Here's the thing, you know, even with millennials, they were the first ones to say give me feedback. Yep. You know, they were the give me feedback generation. So it's like I talked to people now I got they're always wanting feedback. And I'm like, didn't you when you first started? And they're like, Well, yeah, and I go, so the only difference with this generation is they're vocalizing what you didn't feel comfortable saying, right? Gen Z is the same thing. We all want it to be trained. We all wanted to be given direction. For whatever reason, we didn't say it and they're saying it. They want to have a purpose. They want to know how they fit in to the organization. Right? Personally, I'm so glad to see that because I've been preaching that companies do that. I'm like, people need to know where they fit in. I've been preaching it for eons. Everybody's always wanted to know, what's the difference? Gen Z is vocalizing it right? Where's the rest of us? We're just thinking and going. That would be so nice.
Leighann Lovely 29:08
Wouldn't it be nice if somebody would tell me what I'm supposed to do and how I'm doing it?
Andrea Herran 29:13
Yeah, exactly. So it's funny because people bring that up. And I'm like, you know. But everybody's always wanted these things, right. But they're vocalizing it, where they're going a step further, is Gen Z also wants their companies to take more of a social stat. That is where life gets complicated. Right? But it doesn't have to be, you know, companies like individuals can have their own beliefs. You know, if your belief is I am not going into that, you know, hey, we know what we do. We have a great time we service our clients, we produce our products, whatever it is that we do, we don't do so stance, that's fine, just let them know. And then they can decide whether or not they want to be there. Right? If you do take a social stance, let them know what, where that is. Right? And what is it? Is it about a particular cause? Is it a philosophy in general? You know, I'm trying to avoid politics, but right, that kind of falls in there. But people are okay with it. Because everybody falls along the spectrum that's not, you know, people try to think of things as you know, it's either blue or it's red, it's not, you know, there's purple. And but people just wanted to know, because they want to be part of companies or organizations that share their values. So the more you share your values as a company, and what it is that you stand for, and what you want to be known as they will, they will self select in or out of the company, which verbally during the recruitment process, and not after they've started and taking your time. Correct.
Leighann Lovely 30:57
And I think that a lot of the old school companies choose to not do that, because they don't want. They don't want to exclude talent, they don't want to exclude possibility of an end, the younger generation doesn't quite under some of them don't understand that yet. Because it is taking a risk. Because if especially if they are falling on the line of any political things. Yeah. And and I think that in business, it's, it's smart to stay out of the political arena. Because you can, especially nowadays, with how volatile you know, it can get out there. But you're right, I think that a lot of them, they also want to be able to take part in, in volunteer work, they also want something that that was not a thing. I mean, it was a thing, but it wasn't as important of a thing when I was, especially in my early career, that was not even, I mean, occasionally a company would say, Okay, we're going to have this, we're doing this event, we're all going to do it together, and we're going to go volunteer, or there was a Christmas tree that you know, you had a tag on it, that you could go and you could buy gifts, and then you wrap them and you put them under the tree, and then they donate them. That was the extent of any company that I had ever worked at getting involved in, in anything. And then now the rise of you know, companies saying, Hey, we're going to do this fundraiser, or we're going to do this event, and we're going to raise funds and all of the funds are going to go to we're going to vote on which you know, which
Andrea Herran 32:42
charity charity, we want to support. Correct. And that's,
Leighann Lovely 32:45
that's absolutely amazing, you're seeing more and more individuals want to get involved in their community be part of their community, not just on a social basis, but on a way to give back. And that is that is the rise of this generation coming in that they really want to be involved. They want to give back, which is awesome. And that is the doing of their parents, that is part of the way that their parents have instilled in them on giving back. And, and being verbal in
Andrea Herran 33:13
the school systems. A lot of schools you have to have volunteer hours to graduate. And people found that they enjoyed volunteering,
Leighann Lovely 33:20
right, right. And being more vocal, I mean, I am very diligent with I have a five year old, I'm very diligent, my audience knows this. Probably bring her up and my dog multiple times per episode. Um, my dog is evil. He's still a puppy. He's not evil. Sometimes he's evil, anyways, especially when he eats my sandals. Yeah, that it's my fault for leaving them where he can eat them isn't as, okay. So he's not evil, it's just my fault. Being more vocal, that is also the result of the parents telling kids you know, I tell my daughter all the time, it is okay to be mad. Absolutely. Okay to be mad, it's okay to be sad. It's okay to be angry. But it's not okay to start screaming at mommy and telling her you know that she hates her and that she's gonna go in her room and never come out or that she's going to, you know, all these other random things that come out of a five year olds mouth that I'm like, where did she even learn that? And, again, got to look back at the parent, right? But it's because of the parents realizing that they didn't have the voice that a lot of kids growing up, you know, if I threw a fit my parents were like, That's naughty. And, you know, go to your room. I wasn't told that it's okay to have these emotions because they weren't allowed to have you know, there was a time when if you were a boy and you cried, everybody was like, boys don't cry. Well, what, what is that doing to the psyche? I mean,
Andrea Herran 34:56
which has caused which has caused mental health issues and it And I am so thankful that mental health has become more top of mind. You know, it's as a person who has reviewed health care and benefit plans for the last, you know, 30 odd years, I would see mental health would get like, many amounts, yep. Which still basically puts the whole burden on the employee to, to pay for it in now, through legislation through people realize it's, for example, it took legislation to get there. But I think insurance companies, for example, you know, the healthcare insurance companies have finally realized that preventative medicine, in the long run is cheaper, bright and better than trying to cure somebody after it's too late.
Leighann Lovely 35:51
Now, if we can get the doctors on board, sorry, this is my slam, if we can get the doctors on board to stop handing out painkillers, when somebody goes and says, I have, you know, chronic headaches instead of saying, Oh, here's some medication for your headaches and have them actually go. Well, let's figure out why you have chronic headaches. Yeah. I mean, let's let's, because let's take the preventative because I can tell you that my chronic headaches went away when I got adjusted, you know, my back got addressed, adjusted with my chiropractor, boom, I used to have a headache every day, at three o'clock, every day. I started seeing a chiropractor, and I don't have headaches at all anymore. So let's start it. And again, I've been on medication for years for chronic migraines. And I'm wondering, now can I get off that medication? Anyways, I digress. So if we can get if we can get that aligned, but you're right, on the on the mental health, you know, I was at one time paying $1,500 a month for my medications at a time period in my life where I could not afford that. Right? Luckily enough, you know, we still have, you know, drug companies out there that assist with individuals who have mental health problems or who are diagnosed with chronic mental health, my my being bipolar disorder, and for so for a year, they were able to give me my medications for free. But there are there are individuals out there, you know, we need to focus on chronic diagnoses people who were born with something, diabetes, all of these things that people that are born and come into the world who are diagnosed this is, you know, again, this is an entirely another conversation that we could have about, you know, the the medical fields on on the way that health care plans are put together. You know, I'm I'm born, I get diagnosed with something that I didn't ask for, and then you are the person who ends up paying. And you know what, I think epi pens at one point were, like, $800 is
Andrea Herran 38:10
ridiculous. Yeah, I know. It's good for like a month or two. So right, the keychains.
Leighann Lovely 38:15
Right. So again, I when it comes to I'm glad that you know, preventative medicine has finally caught up mental health, the site of mental health has finally caught up on all of those things getting better.
Andrea Herran 38:30
I think it's still so more to do to really catch up, but it's getting better. Yeah,
Leighann Lovely 38:35
yeah, it's those are absolutely, we've completely gone off on a tangent from HR.
Andrea Herran 38:42
But you know, what, this is, this is what I love about HR, you know, because for us, the day to day can be talking about we can go from handbooks to what do we pay people to health insurance, how to use the health insurance, why does not cover this, you know, the mental health, you know, but what about this and that to performance, and I call this I've always been an HR generalist, because I always say I like having my hands and Oh, cookie jars. And I like and I enjoy that variety. Every day, I can easily just go from one topic to the next to the next and then back again. And you know, and some more. That's to me what makes HR exciting, right?
Leighann Lovely 39:25
And that's why I love you obviously wouldn't have a podcast if I didn't love talking and having conversations like this, like it's, there's, there's so much that goes into it. And on a regular basis. I'm sure you're having conversations with your clients when it comes to all of these different things of the best, you know, health insurance plan and then the next conversation is your employee handbooks and an audit and so but before we run out of time, I do want to ask you the next question that I had, you know, ready for you which is, you know, there are A lot of mistakes that can happen when it comes to HR. But what do you think the biggest mistake employers make that can easily be fixed when it comes to dealing with the HR world? I know it's a loaded question. And
Andrea Herran 40:16
I'm totally oversimplifying this. No, it's to make a point. You know, in kindergarten, we all learn the rules of being in kindergarten. If you don't have anything nice to say, you don't say, Keep your hands to yourself. You know, be polite, be respectful, right? Think if we just keep those rules that we learned in kindergarten, in our adult lives, and as we manage people and work with people, you're going to be great, you've got 80 80% of it is there. The other 20% is just fine tuning to maybe a few laws or whatever, you know, for example, it drives me crazy, that we actually still have to give people sexual harassment training. It drives me crazy, because why do we still have to be talking to people about don't touch people? Don't keep asking them out, telling them that they're beautiful, and you'd like to do whatever with them is inappropriate. I mean, honestly, folks, I laugh crazy.
Leighann Lovely 41:24
I laugh because it seems so simple at the idea that, hey, you're in a work environment. Don't do that. Yeah, but you still have to tell people, hey, that's inappropriate. I know. Can you believe it? I know.
Andrea Herran 41:48
I know, they can't see me. But I'm like,
Leighann Lovely 41:49
I know you're making you're making like that your arms are going all over the place, and you're making faces. It's i I completely agree with you. It's what seems to you and me, and probably 75% of the people listening to this, and I say 75, which seems like a low number, but it really, it's not. No, I even would, it seems like an obvious thing. However, there was a client that I had years and years ago, it was a golf course, when I said you have out you have to, on a regular basis have, you know, complaints when it comes to you know, you know, you have these young individuals going out on these golf carts selling boots, I got to assume you get a lot of complaints from, you know, the the beer cart individuals, and I'm going to use individuals, a lot of us are thinking in their head, you know, what I'm avoiding saying, because at one time it was predominantly females who did that job. It is not, you know, again, and I said, you know, they've got to get harassed a lot by you know, the, the young golfers and the guy goes, Oh, no, no, no, and no. And they went, Oh, okay, great. That's good. He goes, No, they don't get harassed by the young golfers. The old ones, and I went, Oh, he goes all the time. Non stop. It is all of the old golfers. And I went what? Oh, because it was a generational thing. Yeah. And I went, Ah, crap. How did I miss that? i How did I not catch on to that? The younger generation coming up, understand that they understand that you can't make a comment. Hey, you look hot in that outfit. It's inappropriate. A generational my grandpa to this day will still make comments about you know, not obviously not me. But he'll stay still make comments. You know, if we're at a at a restaurant, oh, she's a cute one. And I'm like, Oh, God, but he's in his 70s. You know, and he's not making it to her. He's not making her uncomfortable. But that was a generational thing. They they, it's unfortunate. But in that generation, and unfortunately, there are still a lot of and I'm not gonna say just men it it is not just in the men bucket. Oh, no men and women alike. In the old and I'm not saying it's just in that generation. I'm sure that there are plenty. There are plenty of other people. But there's a large population of people in the older generations that still make the same mistakes. And a lot of people will brush it off and go oh, it's just through age, but it's still inappropriate.
Andrea Herran 45:03
Absolutely, absolutely. And the nice thing is, is, you know, you're talking about how the younger generation is so aware, the younger generation has been exposed, openly exposed to so many different things, whether we're talking male, female, liberal, conservative, gender identity, orientation, things like that. I mean, it's, like I said, I've got teenagers, you know, my boys are in high school, and they're like, oh, yeah, you know, it's we see this, we see that and I'm like, I've never heard that term. What does that mean? And I'm like, okay, you know, right. They see it all the time. And they're like, people are just being themselves. It doesn't affect me. So why should I care? Right? And that's the way they are like, Would you ever do this? And they're like, oh, no, right? No. Why? Why would I be little somebody else? Correct. It's just constantly. Thankfully, they just don't yet. Right? I don't understand why anybody would want to do that. Correct.
Leighann Lovely 46:02
And that's the same. My daughter came home. And we were talking about one of her little friends at school. And I said, Oh, what? You know, what are what about her mommy and daddy, and she's, oh, she doesn't have a mommy. And I said, Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. She goes, No, she has two daddies. Oh, okay. Great. And for her, it's completely normal. There is nothing wrong with it. It's completely normal. For me, I'm going Oh, okay. And I'm thinking, well, maybe I should ask her if she's okay with that. And I'm like, wait, no, I'm not going to say anything else. Because then it's going to seem like there's something wrong with it. And she's going to wonder why I'm asking. So I just went, Oh, okay, that's cool. You know, and we, and we just kept on talking. Because, again, my generation is still, we're still getting used to the processing of processing it. And, and we're still my generation, our generation is still processing the pronouns, and we're still and while I am completely accepting, and I, it doesn't matter to me one way or another, it's still, we're still in a state of processing the information to try to understand it, you know, appropriately. Right. And the younger generation, they're, they're growing up in it, they're in the thick of it the same way that I was, and you, and, you know, the older generation was in the thick of, of, you know, I mean, I saw, I had friends who were experimenting with the same sex at that time, and my parents were like, Oh, my God, no, no, that's not, or my parents actually, were really forward thinking and didn't care, my grandparents would have been, like, you know, oh, my God, that's, that's not appropriate, you know, that's completely, again, each generation shifts to be more accepting of the next. And so at some of these employers who are, you know, are much older, and trying to shift with all of the dynamics of the different younger generation coming in. I would not want to be incorporate HR anymore.
Andrea Herran 48:12
Because it gets confusing, you know, like, one of the things I liken it to is computers. You know, it's, I'm Gen X, a home PC came out in my generation when I was in high school, right? I like to think of myself as computer literate, but I'm sure there's tons of stuff that I don't know, still, you know, where as this current generation doesn't know what it's like not to be without a computer, including the one that's in their hand. I mean, cell phones are just small computers, right? You know, they grew up with all that. So to them, it's absolutely normal. You know, so while the rest of us are still trying to process that, I don't have to remember phone numbers anymore, because now I've gotten in my phone. You know, and we're still processing that. It's the same kind of thing. You know, it's
Leighann Lovely 49:01
right, you know? Yeah. I I asked, we were watching Honey, I Shrunk the Kids with my daughter for the first time. And there's a scene in the beginning where the the girl is on the phone that's hooked to the wall, and it's got a cord on it. And I my husband looks at my daughter and goes Honey, do you know what that is? And she goes, Yeah, daddy, it's a phone. And I was like, Oh, okay. Well, she, you know, she's seen. She's seen them before. And she's got a toy that looks like that. And I was like, well, at least she knows what it is. But who has a phone that's hooked to a wall anymore?
Andrea Herran 49:42
It's very rare. Like I don't know if you've seen those videos of like, they put like teenagers in a room with a rotary phone. And you're saying call somebody and we're all looking at it going? Well, it's like, whatever. But you know, it's funny to watch when you know how it's supposed to work. I can't figure out it out. Like they dial like numbers, they dial some numbers, then they lift up the receiver. done anything.
Leighann Lovely 50:07
Oh, is that funny? Well, we are coming to time. And I want to respect that. So I'm going to ask you the question of the season. What do you think will go down in the history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Andrea Herran 50:27
I think history will talk about these last three years with not just events here in the US, but worldwide, about the great divisions, you know, it's your ego, this or your that in the lack of compromise or willing to compromise. You know, being evidence we, the pendulum has really swung towards, Nope, you're either with us or against us kind of thing. I mean, with anything, even on the international stage, you know, we can talk about Russia and all that kind of stuff. It's either you're with us or against us. So I'm looking forward to when the pendulum switches back moves back towards more cooperation.
Leighann Lovely 51:13
That's very interesting.
Andrea Herran 51:17
I have it's funny, because that's, you know, every once in a while my kids be like, it'd be just so much easier for everybody thought the same way. And I said, No, it would be boring. Yes. And I go, because if everybody thought exactly the same way, there would be no innovation, right? There would be no change, we'd still be living the same way. We did, you know, 100 years ago. But also differences are great. It's what makes us thrive. What we've lost sight of is how to actually have conversations around differences. You know, we're not having conversations around differences. We're having arguments. Which arguments nobody wins, right?
Leighann Lovely 51:57
If somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about contacting you?
Andrea Herran 52:02
Oh, very easy. I can you can go to my website, there's a Contact Us form on there. You know, focus, HR dot biz bi Z. You can email me at Andrea a nd or EA at Focus HR dot biz, or call me. You know, and my phone number is 773-531-8199. Excellent.
Leighann Lovely 52:23
This has been an awesome conversation. I really appreciate you joining me today. And yeah, I mean, it's just been it's been amazing.
Andrea Herran 52:32
It's it's been great. I could talk for a few more hours, but we won't do that to your listeners.
Leighann Lovely 52:37
Well, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode, to follow us, like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
Music from Uppbeat (free for Creators!): https://uppbeat.io/t/cruen/family-time License code: 2330NZD3BLNDKPY
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, companies, hr, andrea, generation, employees, gen z, conversations, talk, business, work, mental health, hire, started, great, human resources, question, gen x, millennials, paid
Wednesday Aug 09, 2023
Wednesday Aug 09, 2023
Join Wendy Terwelp and me as we dive into the world of AI and how it can be used as a tool to create resumes, but only a tool. Wendy celebrating her 25th year in business has seen a lot change over the years and continues to help her clients level up and find their personal brand. She also explains some of the challenges that come with using AI but also the great benefits if used as a tool and not the end all. This is a great conversation with a Brilliant Author, Executive Speaker, Speaker and so much more!
Contact Wendy
LinkedIn - linkedin.com/in/wendyterwelp
Website - https://knocks.com/
Leighann Lovely 00:20
HR professionals, business owners and operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started.
Wendy Terwelp founded Opportunity Knocks of Wisconsin LLC, a boutique career development firm, in 1998. She writes, speaks, consults, and coaches on personal branding, networking, social media, career development, and employee attraction and retention.
Winner of the 2022 BBB Torch Award for Ethics, Terwelp’s work was also recognized in Inc.’s “Top 10 Helps for Your Career,” ATD’s “Best on Career Development,” and she was named in the Top 15 Career Masterminds.
Dubbed a “LinkedIn Guru” by The Washington Post, her advice is quoted in The Wall Street Journal, Fast Company, The Philadelphia Inquirer, The Chicago Tribune, The Business Journal, CTDO magazine, ABC, NBC, FOX, and other media. Her books include: “Rock Your Network® for Job Seekers,” “Rock Your Job Search,” and ATD’s award-winning “Jumpstart Your Job Search and Get Hired Faster.”
Terwelp served in community and professional leadership roles including Judging the 2023 BBB Spark Awards; Chairing PD Charitable Fund Board’s Premier Awards Event; Officer on Wisconsin Association of Staffing Services Board; Co-Chairing the Career Development Track for ATD’s International Conference & Expo.
Terwelp holds a Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion in the Workplace certification, six career industry certifications, and a degree in Mass Communication / Journalism.
Wendy, I am so excited to have you. This is actually a treat because you and I have spoken on a podcast before actually in a previous podcast life of mine. So welcome.
Wendy Terwelp 03:08
Thank you. I'm glad to be back. It's exciting.
Leighann Lovely 03:12
Yes. So why don't you start out by telling everybody a little bit about yourself? Well, my name
Wendy Terwelp 03:18
Well, my name is Wendy Terwelp, and I founded a company called Opportunity Knocks of Wisconsin LLC. It's a boutique career development firm. And I founded this in 1998. So it's year 25. For me. I'm excited about that I write speak, consult. And coach on personal branding, networking, social media, career development. And lately, employee attraction and retention. Since the pandemic, that's been a key factor of my business talks now is all about how do we attract better fit employees? How do we keep our employees that we have, and so on. So that's really where my emphasis has lied when I when I have been doing my career coaching and talks. When I work with individuals, I typically work on career advancement strategies, personal branding, and also of course, how to find jobs. So even though there's a huge demand for people, they still need to know how to get the right job for them right now. And when I work with companies, it's really all about employee attraction and retention through their employer brand. So,
Leighann Lovely 04:39
yeah, awesome. And congratulations on your 25. That is amazing. That's so much fun. And I'm sure that the last couple of years is definitely throwing you for a loop. But you're absolutely correct. Now is the time to not only work with individuals on finding the right job for them, in hopes that they will stay A, but finding a way to retain the great employees that you have. And that is definitely the burden on employers. You know, today because we all know that employees are on the move, right? They are looking for the balance between work life, the love of their job and their opportunities to be had by all, aren't they're?
Wendy Terwelp 05:29
Absolutely, yeah, I really think that's what you're going to see. But I know that question comes later.
Leighann Lovely 05:37
Yes, so one of one of the things that you and I had kind of, you know, thrown out there as a as an area to talk about, which is, you know, on the rise, it is, you know, being talked about everywhere you go, which is, you know, the AI tools, you know, the GP chats of the world, all of the other tools out there that are specific to that, you know, I've had people approach me and say, Oh, have you use this one? It's specific to podcasting, or have you use this one. But one of those things is, you know, a AI tool for writing or creating resumes. What are your thoughts on that?
Wendy Terwelp 06:16
Yeah, I, I really love this topic, because I actually had one of my clients. She messaged me through LinkedIn. And she's like, I'm really concerned about your business, because I have people that are using AI to create resumes. Well, first of all, that's not the sole part of my business. So, right. But But secondly, I think what people really have to remember is AI can be used as a tool, just like your computer programs can be right. It's a tool. And I think that's the really big thing for people to remember that it's a tool. So what this tool can do for you is, you could use it as a tool to research keywords for the appropriate position that you're targeting, you still have to put the human you into your career documents. So even if AI creates a resume for you, it's not you, right, it's just some something generic, it's not going to have your qualified quantified achievements that focus on bottom line results that are specific to you, because it doesn't know those things, it can't pull those out of the internet ether. Because it doesn't have that information. You have to have that information as a candidate, you need to know these things. You can't say significantly improved sales, you're not going to get hired, you need to say by how much and what percentage, did you improve sales? How did you improve sales? What specific actions did you take to improve those sales? And more importantly, who are some of your key clients? How much revenue did that bring in? And over what timeframe?
Leighann Lovely 08:05
So not only that, but I also you know, you get again, being you know, coming from the recruiting world beat Yeah, you get all of these resumes, and and I like the uniqueness of a resume, somebody who pours their heart and soul and being like, and again, I'm not saying like, Oh, make pretty, you know, put hearts and flowers and rainbows on him. Because that would just irritate me, I don't I don't need that stuff. I want the I want the short and skinny of how you accomplish what you I don't want to book, please don't send me a book. I'm not interested in reading your life story. I want the short and skinny of how you did what you did at that job with the highlights. Because, again, most employers or people who are hiring, they give your resume, a couple of you know, 10 to 15 seconds to grab their attention and decide whether or not they're going to read further. If they read further, you then you know you're in your chances of being called for an interview increase dramatically. Right. But if you're using an AI, I'm gonna guess that this AI is pulling from, you know, historical data data on what is the best format? What is the best verbiage what is the and you're going to end up with what everybody else has?
Wendy Terwelp 09:33
Yes, exactly. It's generic. It's not you and it's doesn't separate you from the crowd. Your resume look like everybody else's. If you're an accountant. That's pretty straightforward job but what's unique to you are the type of you know, what did you save money wise? Did you do a due diligence for an acquisition or merger? What was your impact to the organization if you did that, you know, what level of accounting Are you Are you? Are you a CFO? Or are you a staff, accountant? Those are different responsibilities. Even if you're a newbie, a new college grad, okay, some of those things are going to be general because you're new to the world of your new profession. But maybe you had an internship nobody else had. Maybe that makes you different. Maybe you have some amazing volunteer activity that you participated in that other people didn't. Maybe you did a study abroad program as a new grad that somebody else didn't. These are separators, right. So you can use, you can use AI, maybe as a tool to research keywords, maybe to flesh out a format, but you still have to be take ownership of what you put out. And I feel, you know, you need to know what your achievements are, you need to know what your personal brand is what sets you apart, because not all people are created equal. That's what makes us great and makes us you know, hireable, and it makes us a culture fit for the organizations we target. So we have to get into those differentiators.
Leighann Lovely 11:08
So do you think this is probably a bad question? But I'm gonna ask it anyways. Because your show? I mean, don't you think that that AI is slightly ruining a cup? And again, I know my audience is gonna yell at me like, What? What do you mean ruining us? But I mean, it's great in some aspects, it gives, hey, I use it. Don't get me wrong. I love GP chat. I love to jump on there and be like, I need some ideas. And then from what it kicks out, I'm like, Oh, that's a really great idea. And then I, I go off and I created on my own, you may be using a couple key words that I did not that I didn't even know existed. But for the younger generation, the reason that I have gotten to where I am, is because I've had to swim. I was thrown into the pool and a sink or swim. I swam. Don't you think that that's kind of ruining that learning that necessary learning for some of that younger generation?
Wendy Terwelp 12:19
Well, that's more of a culture shock situation. I mean, when I was growing up, I didn't have a global pandemic. To share. Right, right. When I graduated from college, we had the second we had the second we had a stock market crash. When I graduated from college, there weren't any jobs. Right. So I had to go out there and forge my own way, right. And I was still was able to get employed, primarily through my network, applied everywhere, but still had to do the groundwork of networking, that personal touch, the networking, in fact, I wrote the book called Rock your network for job seekers. So hello. Right. And, and I, the network still has to be there and AI can't replace your network. Right? These are all tools. Social media is a tool, you know, so I think I think we have to look at these as tools. I mean, I had a typewriter, I had a computer, those were tools. You know, when computers were out and everybody had a computer in their home, they said, oh, there's never going to be any paperwork. Hello, here. My notes right? On paper. You know, trees, we are still killing trees, we still get junk mail. Right? So I think, let's reframe that as it's another marker of change. And how can we use this tool to help us because we aren't, you know, we aren't using horses for unless you're in New York, and then you want to go on the horse ride, but I think they're even slowing that down. Right? So evolution is gonna happen regardless. So how can we use these tools to help us not be right, any generation because every generation is different. And we all learn and adapt? And I think right now we really got to focus on who is the candidate who is the most adaptable? Who is the candidate who's the most resilient who's the candidate who has really unique ideas that we want for our company, who is the candidate who has proven results with actual numbers, right. That's how we're going to be a difference, I think.
Leighann Lovely 14:49
Absolutely. And you know, as you're as you're talking, and when you first started that I realized that I have become old because As you know, I'm doing what I'm sure my parents did when they're like, Oh, isn't the computer, you know, going to ruin our kids, they can get all of this in front, they don't have to go to the library and read books, they are able to go on a course, when I first got my, my first computer, the internet didn't exist. It was, I can't remember what program it was. But it was like this amazing program where you could get all of this historical information, it wasn't even online, it was just this different. I don't remember what it was a CD, no, it was probably a floppy, it probably, it probably was a floppy that you put in and it was like this mobile thing. You can do, like historical history research on it. And it was amazing. But I'm sure that my parents, our parents, you know, thought, wow, this is going to ruin you know, our kids aren't going to be looking or reading books anymore, which is 100% not true, I still love to sit down with an actual paper book, which is horrible, because I'm killing trees, when I can just, you know, pick up my Kindle, which I do have one of those as well and read it and save the paper. But I like to make notes in the margin, especially when I'm reading a, you know, like a actual book. The point being is that you're right, every step we make all of the progressive things that happen. They are tools, they are not to replace the human brain. And in order to continue to advance, we have to remember that these are our tools, but the human touch cannot be completely removed.
Wendy Terwelp 16:38
That's what I've, I feel, you know, there's there's a huge strike right now in Hollywood, from both actors and writers. And I do feel their pain, because what they're talking about is not being replaced. But what they're really talking about is, hey, we put all this intellectual property out there. I don't want my image selling a product, I don't believe it. If you really think about it, or I don't want my words, now being used as a chat GPT training tool. Right, which is what what one comedian had happened. You know, so these are some things that that's where the fight is coming in is, hey, we don't want our intellectual property taken and that to be compensated for that material. Right. That's what's happening to so I understand that. And that's wildly interesting, because
Leighann Lovely 17:41
how do you regulate, that? How do you regulate an AI? And how do you the other thing, too, is? You know, I, somebody had said that, you know, chat GPT and some of the other AI tools are confidently in accurate?
Wendy Terwelp 18:03
Yes. I love that phrasing of confidently inaccurate. That's sweet.
Leighann Lovely 18:11
And it's not my phrase, I heard it from somebody else I, you know, from somebody else, but
Wendy Terwelp 18:15
it's good, because here's the scoop. So they're they're producing content. And you think, well, this is this has got to be true, there was a great case about a lawyer who had jet GPT. Write their brief for them and cite cases, those cases did not exist. That was the whole problem corral that, you know that that's a whole big, ongoing thing. But here's the scoop. So that's where you're coming in with the confidential, confidently inaccurate phrasing, because it seems normal. And that's why you really have to be, do your due diligence and do your investigative work? Are these real cases? Are these real? Resources? Where are they getting that from? And that's going to come down to a few things. One, what prompt are you using to create the content that you're receiving? Or create the information you're receiving? You have to have strong, accurate prompts to do it, too. You have to edit no matter what comes back at you, you have to do your own due diligence on that material. Use it as a framework don't use it as gospel.
Leighann Lovely 19:29
Right. And that's, you know, I've heard other people reference the the lawyer situation, because if you think about, you know, an AI, it doesn't know where exactly it's pulling it from, it knows that it's pulling it from the web. But what people put out on the web is not always correct. We refer back to for instance, Wikipedia. So Wikipedia is, you know, an open source or a have a place where you can, you know, put out information that what I believe it has to be approved, but it's approved by the masses that believe that yes, what information you are putting out is, is indeed, accurate, but not 100% accurate. So if we're pulling from a source that is inaccurate, say a definition that may have one word that is incorrect, all of the sudden, instead of saying, you know, the don't or the do, all of the sudden things become completely wrong. And so if, if you're Yeah, if you're not double checking those sources, you then are going to look like a complete ass?
Wendy Terwelp 20:50
Well, that's a pretty accurate way of putting it, I think, well, in the Yeah, and the other thing is, is you have to watch out for bias in the material that comes back to you as well. So that's another thing now that they're really finding, in now that it's become really, you know, there's chat GPT for now, which is even more amazing, then three, and so on. So what comes back, though, you got to watch out for bias, who is it hurting? Who is it harming where the source is coming from, and I think that's where the human factor comes in, you've got to really do your research on what comes back, it might save you a lot of time. You know, if you're an employer and looking to write a job description for a potential opening, you have, it could give you a nice framework, but you still own your company, you still work for your employer, you know, the corporate culture that's there, you know, the specific requirements that might be different for that role in your company than it might be for the general masses. And so you need to adapt what comes back. And you also need to watch those biases too. Right? Yeah,
Leighann Lovely 22:06
I completely agree with that with the the political unrest. And if you accidentally put in something there in there that has anything related to something that's going on in the political world, you could potentially be in a world, a world of hurt that that is definitely something that I didn't even consider. You know, same thing with, you know, other hot top, you know, hot topics right now, in the mental health world, in in the neurodiverse. world in so many other things. There are so many splits, it will, even in, you know, all of the isms, racism, and ageism, and all of those, there's so many split things out there, or misinformation, that it would be so easy to get information that is, again, confidently inaccurate. It's, yeah, that it would be easy for Yeah. So what, you know, what are and again, you kind of addressed this, as far as you know, what candidates and employers need to be careful of, you know, using AI tools for those things. What are other things, you know, Have you have you seen? Have you had firsthand experience working with any employers or employees writing resumes or job descriptions?
Wendy Terwelp 23:28
Well, outside of somebody's concerned for my business, which was so nice. I really emphasize that personal and personality and achievement emphasis, because that is unique to you, that can't be copied. That's you, right. And so, you know, for candidates, candidates still have to provide specific quantified achievements with a focus on results. Ai can't do that, because they don't know you personally, they don't know your history. They just pull it from the Ethernet, essentially, you know, they just pull it out and create something. And you can get some great keywords from them. You can get a framework, but you still have to contribute who you are. An AI can't do it for employers. Maybe they can shorten the time for writing job descriptions, but you're unique to your company, your company has its own culture, some things aren't replicable, and you have to again, review what you get. Make sure there isn't the bias in there that could happen. And so use it to flesh out an outline just don't use it. Adds is I think, right? And some companies now are doing some I thought it was ridiculous, but now I see why they're doing it. They're kind of doing it like whatever band that was that then had people search for the green m&ms and remove green m&ms from the m&m bowl. Well, they did that because they had pyrotechnics in their show. And if somebody didn't pay attention to their full Ryder, say, could tell if there was a green m&m in their bowl that they didn't read the full rider, and there could be some dangerous happenings with the pyrotechnic setup. Wait, wait, wait, we will back up. I'm
Leighann Lovely 25:29
interested in this one. Explain this. So
Wendy Terwelp 25:33
there's a rock band that actually a few of different ones, but there's one in particular that specifically said they asked for m&ms, you know, in the green room for them when they're setting up. And they said, but no green m&ms. And if there was a green m&m in there, they knew that whoever read their contract and read the writers did not read the green m&m writer, and there could be a technical issue with their setup and their pyrotechnics that could cause harm to them and the audience. They knew it wasn't read properly. So then that meant that they had to go in there with their own people and make sure everything was okay. So that was a signal. And I've now seeing it in certain job descriptions. I read one, and I thought it was ridiculous. I'm like, why is this guy talking about turtles? What is the deal with the turtle? And he went on and on about if you don't have turtle, when you reply to me in some way, either in your cover letter or your resume? I know you didn't read my job description. And it was way down on the bottom of the job description. And I thought it was ridiculous. But he was using it as an AI wieder.
Leighann Lovely 26:50
That is brilliant. Yeah. Right. I, I've never thought about that. Because how many people just scan it and go, yep.
Wendy Terwelp 27:00
I meet these qualifications. And it how many times you know, I was a recruiter, you our recruiter? How many times have we gotten hundreds of applicants who we know did not read the job description and were not qualified. Right? So this was like, one extra step. And he used it as a tool to weed out AI resumes, as well as unqualified applicants because they didn't read the full job description. Right?
Leighann Lovely 27:29
That is one way at the end, right way at the end. So you've you've got to wow. Yeah, interesting. I like it. I like it. I completely like it.
Wendy Terwelp 27:42
I know. First I thought, Man, that's ridiculous. Why are they doing that? And then I was like, oh, that's why they're doing it. I did a more research on it. And, and they had done it just like the rockstars that put in those riders, right. They wanted to make sure the person was paying attention that they actually did meet all of the qualifications, and that they could follow directions. And they weren't AI.
Leighann Lovely 28:04
Correct? Well, and especially I mean, it makes sense for obviously, these the rocks, if they've got, if they've got dangerous equipment in which they're they just telling somebody, we have dangerous equipment, you need to read all of the rules. It's unfortunate that some people won't do it. Right, they still will not do it. Yes.
Wendy Terwelp 28:29
And we know that just from having, you know, recruiter experience, right. So you know,
Leighann Lovely 28:36
you know how many times I've signed up for a credit card, and then they send me the stuff in the mail. And I'm like, what this is, how, what is the percentage of this? Or what is the n or I get dinged with a fee? And I'm like, wait a second, why am I getting a fee? And then it's right, right there in the contract? And you're like,
Wendy Terwelp 28:52
Oh, I wish I would read that closer.
Leighann Lovely 28:56
I guess I didn't read that. Yeah, it. I've learned my lesson now. But you know, you live and learn. You need to read everything with a fine tooth comb. And as somebody who's written and, you know, signed hundreds of contracts throughout my career, I don't sign anything I don't read now. You know, thoroughly. I'm not putting my name on anything. And that has saved me multiple times. But that is that is a really, that is a really, I feel like it maybe somebody had said something about the green m&ms, but I don't know that I'd actually truly understood what that was all about.
Wendy Terwelp 29:40
It was like a big one of those urban myths, but it's actual, it's an actual fact and just do a Google search on it. Yeah. Right. Your listeners can find it and find the band that does it. That's the reason they do it. Right.
Leighann Lovely 29:55
Put in something you know, that seems wildly strange and Um, but there's a reason behind, you know, and most things are driven by a reason. You know, I have a five year old that constantly questions me, and why do I have to do this? And then I'm like, Okay, well, here's the reason behind says, Oh, I'm just kidding. I wish I wish that would work these days. I have a wildly, inquisitive, inquisitive five year old where she'll go, Well, I don't understand why I have to do this. I'm not doing it. And I'll go. Alright, fine. Let me explain. The reason that you're not allowed to jump on and off the cart while Mom is pushing the cart is the exact reason that mommy just ran over your foot, and now you're crying? Oops. Yeah, that's true story. Actually, that happened yesterday. Oh, no. Right. Right. She's crying, you ran over my foot. And I'm like, Well, I told you to stop playing in front of the cart and jumping on and off the cart. And so yeah, I just ran over your foot. Children. So you, you help you help individuals, you know, get ready for a well and not just get ready, you coach individuals on finding their next career path. And that includes helping review resumes and, you know, find what their passion is. Tell me a little bit more about that. Sure. When I work with an individual, it's it's
Wendy Terwelp 31:25
it's either a career move internally, so we're working on how we can communicate their value more effectively, uncovering and discovering their achievements, elevating their personal brand, because they have one, everyone has one. Herman's always late. Oh, you've, you've got a label right there. You want to change that? Herman? Right. So really harnessing the power of your differentiators, which again, is going to elevate you, not only internally, but if you want to apply anywhere else, it's going to help you. And when I work with job seekers, I work on several things, like you said, one is really uncovering your value, vision, passion and purpose. What is that? You know, how do you stand out from the crowd? What makes you unique? What do you really want to do? Not what you can do, because you can do a lot of different things. But what do you really want for that next booth? Most of the people that I work with are mid career and up. So they're in that what do I want for my next move, and a better be really good, a better be a good culture fit? Pay better be decent? You know, and should be something I want? We can do a lot of things, but what is it that you really want? And why? Why should I hire you? So we work on things like, you know, I do write people's resumes, but it's done with them, highly collaboratively, I ask them questions, I get to the heart of those achievements. I have them do their due diligence and really find me results. What are the results, because you can't, you know, especially now when you are competing with people writing their resumes, with AI, you have to be different and specifics are going to do that for you. And so that's where I come in, I'll help people, right. They're linked in profiles, I actually write them based on an in depth interview I I have experienced as a news reporter. And so that comes in really handy in my recruiting experience. And having served on the board of directors for Wisconsin Association of staffing services, and big at a high level in some other different professional associations and organizations that helps me have a really wide network of decision makers, and I know what they want to see. And I know what's going to track them. But I still want to capture that person's personality, too. Because personality is going to pop and it's going to help attract. So AI is a tool, and you can use that. But then you'll want to work with somebody like me, who can really help you pull out those differentiators and in develop your story.
Leighann Lovely 34:11
That's awesome. That's amazing. So if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?
Wendy Terwelp 34:19
Well, super easy. My website is knocks.com, I've been around a long time. So I was able to get it. And then you could just you could email me you can easily follow me on LinkedIn at Wendy Terwelp WENDY and then Terwelp to TERWELP. And you can also Google that and you're gonna see me everywhere. So that'll help you but knocks.com is the website.
Leighann Lovely 34:48
Awesome. Now we do have a question of the season. This is kind of a while it's a new question this season as this is the first episode of season four but what what What do you think will go down in the history history books from what the world has experienced over the last three years?
Wendy Terwelp 35:09
Wow, I think there's been a huge culture shift. Huge, you know, I'm going to focus on the work side of that shift. And, and the work side is very interesting. You're seeing, because the pandemic, so many people, first of all, there was like a 20 time evolution in tech, right, that, that those of us who could could work from home, here, you and I are working from home with our cool paintings and stuff behind us, right? So we, we get to do that not everyone gets to do that. But we, we are able to do that. So that was a huge major shift that will go down in history, you're hearing about the great reshuffle the great resignation, and all of that. That's because people are like, wow, I, there isn't a loyalty anymore. First of all, there never was. But now you as it's back to the employee II market, some of that has slowed a little bit. And you're seeing some massive shifts in the tech industry. But it's still there. And so people are really reevaluating their work. What do I want? What do I value, I want to make an impact. That's probably the number one thing that I keep hearing from my clients is I want to contribute, I want to make an impact. And I want to have, I want to work for a company whose ethics I believe in. That's really big. And there's an Edelman trust survey that came out just last year. And the number one thing that people are looking for, they want CEOs of companies to take a stand. Societal leadership is critical now. And it's critical to your company to attract talent and also retain talent. So where do you stand? Right, that's a shift. Another shift that I'm seeing is with, with those who can work from home, people don't want to go back. They want to stay remote, because they can. And companies, are there still some tug of war from that? And people are saying, well, that's disintegrating the culture? Well, what can you do in your office culture to include remote workers more? We have tools like this here, you and I last time we we got together was pre pandemic, and we got to meet in person. How cool right, you know, although we did to a post pandemic meet up too, but you know, here we are both able to do this on Zoom. How cool is that? Right? You can't?
Leighann Lovely 38:09
Well, anything you both had to drive? Wasn't it like a 40 minute drive for both of us to meet? Yes, right. Yeah, because we're not we were a distance away from each other. So we save
Wendy Terwelp 38:23
time there. The other thing that remote is allowing is your global workforce, you can hire people, it's so exciting because you can have a global workforce. Now. You can also hire people that may be because of your building constraints, however your building was designed, you might not have been able to open some things up to folks, you know, I think you can have more neurodiverse people working for you than perhaps you had in the past. I mean, I think having these capabilities is really going to expand the opportunities for people of all kinds to work for you. So really think about it as a tool to expand your workforce. I think it will. The other shift too, is I would hope in the throes of the pandemic, people have a little more respect for essential workers. I mean, some of the things that I was seeing, come on, these folks are there showing up for you restack in the groceries, these poor people are showing up for you and in some cases also getting severely ill in the hospitals caring for you. You know, people were not able to see elderly people. I hope that that changes to and people have a little more empathy and compassion for others. I hope that that's it shift that we see more of.
Leighann Lovely 40:02
Absolutely not only essential workers but you know, for. And again, I'm not saying not only, that was a huge stress on hospital workers on emergency care workers on our military, you know, the people who stepped up, stepped up and you know, had to come in and do you know, the mass testings, the mass vaccines, right. And then once we went back to being able to open up restaurants to have people in person, the individuals who have been busting their butts to be able to serve the people who want to go out to dinner, right? Go and make sure you tip them, if you can afford to go out to dinner, then you can afford to tip your server Yes, I understand that things have prices have gone up. But they are out there busting their butts, and they were busting their butts, you know, right after the pandemic and things started to they're out there trying to make a living to tip and stop complaining that Oh, my God, it's taking so long to get our food. Everybody is stressed still, we're all trying to get the world back to where it was. And it's just not going to be back to where it was, this is the way it's going to be for a long time coming. And I totally agree. When I think about that question, what is going to go down in the history books, obviously, it's going to be you know, that we had a global pandemic. But I think that's almost going to be the footnote in what happened after. Because there are so many things that would have eventually happened. But I think that it would have taken 510 15 years, for all of the other things that came after to eventually happen. The remote workforce, the all of these different things, we just saw, all of this stuff happens so quickly. And it shocked our economy, it shocked our system. And some of these things are beautiful, and others not quite as beautiful. You know, I don't like going into the grocery store and seeing that my carton of eggs has gone up to 12 bucks and you know, a carton
Wendy Terwelp 42:22
is coming back down again. But that was an avian flu thing,
Leighann Lovely 42:26
right? You know, I hate to see the you know, things skyrocketing in price and all of this other stuff because of, you know, all these things that are off balance right now. But yes, the pandemic was horrific. And I think that it will put a light it'll shine a light on a lot of the people who's who stepped up and helped the world continue to move. But I think that also it is the history books are going to talk about everything that you just mentioned. So awesome. That was great answer. Well, Wendy, this has been such an amazing conversation. It is it's always great to catch up and talk with you. I look forward I would love to have you come on, you have such a wealth of knowledge and love to have you. You know, come on again, to you know, tackle another topic and another time. Sure. So I would welcome that. But thank you so much for joining me today.
Wendy Terwelp 43:25
Thank you for having me and I'd love to be back. Thanks again the end.
Leighann Lovely 43:30
Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support. Without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai
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SUMMARY KEYWORDS
ai, work, pandemic, put, tool, resumes, job description, write, read, gpt, employers, achievements, career, ruining, happen, employees, differentiators, wendy, question, career development
Leighann Lovely here,
Let’s Talk HR is a place for HR Professionals, Business Owners, and employees to come and share experiences, talk about what’s working and not, how we can improve best practices so that companies can better attract, train, and retain all generations of workers.
We all know that there had been a huge shift in what people want, generations are coming together more than ever on what’s important, mental health had been brought to the forefront of everyone’s mind, let's humanize these conversations, let’s talk about how the economy has been impacted and what needs to happen to find a balance.
Contact Leighann
Linkedin - www.linkedin.com/in/leighannl
E-mail - Leighann@loveyoursales.com
Phone - 262-893-7871